Brand Copywriter Mark Grainger
About this podcast episode…
BRAND COPYWRITER MARK GRAINGER
For years, Mark Grainger’s freelance business ticked along nicely.
Referrals. Word of mouth. Repeat clients.
And then… things went quiet.
In this episode of the Being Freelance podcast, we explore what happens when the reliable stream of freelance work slows down. And what it really takes to respond proactively rather than panic.
Durham-based freelance brand copywriter Mark shares how he:
- Repositioned himself from a company name back to his personal brand
- Niched by service rather than industry
- Started experimenting with LinkedIn outreach
- Refocused on building more durable business foundations
- Leaned into community rather than retreating
Mark is refreshingly honest about the uncomfortable parts of freelancing, especially business development.
“I have a business, but I’m not a businessman.”
We also talk about lifestyle businesses, pricing flexibility, work-life balance, and why it’s vital to acknowledge the harder seasons of self-employment rather than pretending everything’s fine.
If freelancing has felt quieter lately…
If you’ve relied on referrals and now need a Plan B…
Or if you’ve ever felt uncomfortable selling yourself…
This conversation will reassure you. And might just nudge you to get proactive too.
Available as a video podcast too - Watch here on the site, on YouTube, or Spotify.
Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.
More from MARK GRAINGER
Mark on LinkedIn
Mark Grainger - Brand Copywriter website
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Brand Copywriter Mark Grainger
Steve Folland: How about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Mark Grainger: Yeah, so, I graduated and got a little part-time job that I wasn't really confident enough to spin into being freelance. 'cause I was like 21 and they wanted a blog and it was like half a week. And looking back I would've, you know, told myself to have a kick up the arse and make that a full... like full-time career.
But at the time I was like, no, I need in office experience. I need a proper job and all the rest of it. So I got a couple of agency gigs and the last one sort of put me properly onto copywriting, but it completely fell apart within the year that I was there. Unrelated to my presence, I should say. Most, mostly. Yeah, but it's just, that was one of those agencies that kind of crumbled and over the course of six months, they got a bit aggy and it was just like, oh, I really don't want to go into another agency environment like this, and it kind of accelerated our plans to go freelance by about a year or so.
Luckily another person who had been working there had gone freelance before me and picked up one of their clients and he got in touch and said, you know, you've been working on this for them, would you work on this for me instead? And so that was it. That was, you know, within about two months I was... of me leaving that job. I was away. On work I already knew.
Steve Folland: So after uni you worked for an agency as a writer?
Mark Grainger: So I, I worked for a car dealership, as a, as a writer and set up, set up the blog and you know, various internal comms.
And then I got a PR agency who were lovely but very traditional. And I say I... most of their work was writing, but it was, it was standard account exec job, and then it was a digital copywriter job with the agency that ultimately fell apart.
Steve Folland: I see. Okay. So there's a few, there's a few experiences there of, of working for companies.
So, but this time you, you went for it. You went...
Mark Grainger: Yeah. I mean, it had always, always been the plan to go freelance, but I was, you know, I, I didn't really have the confidence, like I say, when I first started. And I knew I didn't have any connections straight out of university. So, you know, meeting a few people and, you know, getting to know people in different walks of life and, you know, designers, web builders, all that type of stuff in within the agency rules really helped me to go on afterwards when I finished.
And a lot of those people I still keep in touch with and some of them I still do some work with now and again. So it was definitely the right choice. It was just a very stressful, stressful end to it and start to freelancing.
Steve Folland: And when was this?
Mark Grainger: Oh, that was 2015. Yeah, I've, I've just passed my 10th anniversary at end, at the end of last, last year. Yeah. Strange.
Steve Folland: So how did, how did you find those first freelance clients? So, so somebody's come to you with some work from that agency?
Mark Grainger: Yeah. So there was that, and then, I did a bit of work with one of the other people who left the agency. They went in-house and they needed a bit of work and yeah, just kind of started talking to other writers. And finding work that way. A lot of it's sort of being referral based. it still is, to be honest with you.
I think I'm quite good at making friends with people. And so, you know, if they've got extra work, they might want to give it to me because I'm nice and lovely. Little do they know.
Steve Folland: Where were you meeting them?
Mark Grainger: Oh, I was very, very heavily active on Twitter for a very long time. so I, I I'm not very good at networking events.
I would say I think it's just the amount of people and probably the time of the morning doesn't really match up to my energy. So a lot of it was like meeting people on Twitter or Facebook groups, or again, through the contacts that I made, through the agencies, you know, like connecting with their connections on LinkedIn and various groups and stuff like that.
So a lot of it was done online more than in person. Yeah.
Steve Folland: And did you have like a, I don't know, a niche, a specialism?
Mark Grainger: No, I, I've, I've always avoided niching. I'm very much a generalist. I think it's to do with attention span. So unless it was a product or service o,r an industry that I absolutely loved, I would find it quite difficult to devote all my time to it.
Whereas if it's, you know, if it's an industry that I'm not that keen or I'm not that interested in, I can quite happily do a few days a month on it. But for it to be the whole focus, the be all on everything, I, I don't think I'd be able to do that.
What I have done over recent years has kind of niched into a service offering, which is more like the sort of, human to human copywriting, and your brand and tone of voice. I think that's the other type of niche that's often overlooked. So it's not, it's not an industry niche, it's a product service niche from my side.
Steve Folland: How did you realize that's what you wanted to niche in? Then how did you make people realize that's what you wanted to niche in?
Mark Grainger: I think because I've got a journalism background as well as PR and, and obviously copywriting.
So I think I've been doing a lot of work in a lot of different styles. You know, I can write quite serious, I can write technical, I can write fun. And you know what, what's gonna be the one you want to do outta that? It's gonna be the fun stuff.
And it was just when I got more feedback about the copy being engaging and funny and you know, a joy to read. That's the type of stuff that you want. And that's not to say that it's all, you know, every fun client or engaging client has the same tone. 'Cause the don't is just, it's finding those angles and bringing out the best of that client is kind of what I enjoyed more.
Especially when you contrast that with some of the more SEO heavy writing that I've done, which is basically a lot of people just wanted some content for Google. And that's just, I found that a little bit soul destroying when it's just, you know, it doesn't actually matter how it reads, it's just has to have the right words. And I was like, I actually want people to, to read this and smile. You know what I mean? It's just, that's, so that's how I go into that.
And I think the more you do that, the more you know, to answer your second question, the more you sort of push that as your service. So I mean my entire online LinkedIn personality now is, is about fun, engaging writing rather than anything else.
It's casting a smaller net, but you know, getting the, the correct fish, I guess, rather than just saying, I'm a writer, I'll do anything, you know, this is why I'd prefer to do it, therefore this is why I'll do best and do better for you with.
Steve Folland: Has how you find clients changed or is it still very much from, you know, because basically Twitter's changed and you said...
Mark Grainger: Oh, I, I left, I left Twitter.
Steve Folland: Yes. So Twitter changed. You leave Twitter, but you still kept those relationships that you've made on their alive?
Mark Grainger: Yeah. I mean, there was a, there was quite a nice little group of us kind of banded together around the pandemic. Created a little support group at the time and still in touch with a lot of those people.
Yeah, I mean, I, am in the process of trying to adapt how I get clients, I guess I would say, because traditionally, eight out of 10 years I just bobbed along getting job after job after job, week after week, month after month, and then something happened a couple of years ago and everything went a bit to pot.
And I think a lot of copywriters and other freelancers would say that the last two years have been a bit more of a struggle. Yeah so I'm kind of changing it around and I'm trying to be more, do more outreach and such and selling myself, but it's not where I'm particularly comfortable because I am technically a business owner, but I'm not a businessman.
I'm definitely a creative and a writer, so finding that distinction and putting myself out there is not in my comfort zone whatsoever, but it's what I kind of have to do now.
A lot of work does still come from referrals when it comes in, but there is more coming from that projection and outreach side of things. Yeah.
Steve Folland: What have you been doing?
Mark Grainger: Oh, I spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. I've basically swapped Twitter for LinkedIn. And yeah, you know, cold emails and yeah, I booked into a few networking events that aren't at half past seven in the morning, so I'm hoping that that'll do me well, give you a time to wake up. But I, it's just one of those things, I'm, I'm very actively figuring it out because I, you know, I don't particularly know what I'm doing in this realm.
It's not my strong suit at all. I would love to have somebody go doing the outreach for you going here's some clients, but no, not as, not as an employee. Like if I had a partner who was a business development, that would be absolutely perfection as far as I'm concerned. But alas is not to be.
Steve Folland: How have you been working your cold outreach? What does that look like?
Mark Grainger: So. I've been automating some LinkedIn outreach. So I don't think LinkedIn loves automation, but you can get away with it if you keep the numbers of connections down to a certain amount each day. And that looks like a, a sort of decision tree where it visits a profile. It likes, it engages, and if you haven't responded within a few days, it'll send a message and you can sort of map all that out.
So, yeah, so like you put in a search of say 'marketing agencies, London', and it will add all those people. Yeah. So if they haven't responded, it'll visit their profile if they have responded it will like a post and then send the message that you write out and yeah, so it, it's just a very, broad approach, I guess.
And also when I, when I feel that can get over the self loathing of it I will also send out a lot of cold emails because I, so that that 1% reply rate really, you know, really gives you the boost.
Steve Folland: This LinkedIn automation thing, whisper it. Is that working?
Mark Grainger: I mean, it works in the sense that I think, you know, I've had a couple of conversations off the back of it.
And I think if you're trying to build your network, it works better than spending 20 minutes of your day going through scrolling people and clicking. And doing it manually. I think it's something that has to be done, but it's better to do it for me. It's better to do it automated and have it running in the background.
Steve Folland: So you've said, I would like you to find these people. I'd like you to... what, send a connection request?
Mark Grainger: Yeah.
Steve Folland: And then I would like you to like one of their posts
Mark Grainger: Within the timeframe that you set.
Steve Folland: And it will send a message which you've rewritten. Which to be fair, I, I guess we all say similar things in that first initial... but what is that thing?
It doesn't have to be word for word, but is it mentioning what you do or is it say, Hey, I like what you're up to, or...
Mark Grainger: I think there's different approaches. It depends how heavy sales you want to be. I mean, mine's very much just a sort of introduction. Mine's not so much, you know, can I send you a audit of your website because I think people get put off by that. I know, I, I do.
Steve Folland: Exactly.
Mark Grainger: So it's more about, for me, it's about building connections for them to then see my content rather than pushing a sale.
Steve Folland: At which point you, if they reply, you then step in as a human.?
Mark Grainger: Yes.
Steve Folland: Ah, okay.
Mark Grainger: So it's just the initial message is automated and then, you know, if they start a conversation, it's a conversation and you see where it goes from there.
Steve Folland: And it becomes just a normal human interation..
Mark Grainger: Yeah, I mean, a lot of people I think will tell you to add so many connections on LinkedIn per day or per week, and it's just, it just takes out the manual aspect of that. So it's, I don't think it's particularly shady. It's, you know, it's just, it's helping me to just find those people quicker.
I also kind of struggle with that rote manual side of connecting and linking in and spending time doing that. 'cause to my mind, there's, there's other things that I'm better at doing that I'd rather be doing.
Steve Folland: And have you had success with that?
Mark Grainger: A small amount. But it's just, it's network expanding again.
I mean, I have such a lovely amount of copywriters and marketing people around me, but they're not people who are buying the service. You know what I mean, they're cheerleaders and it's great to have and you know, I wouldn't not have them, but it's finding more people who might want that work in the future.
So people like decision makers and agencies and such like that. And it's just a way of finding more, like maximizing the people that I find, I guess, and bring to the profile
Steve Folland: Can, can you say what the tool is called?
Mark Grainger: It's called Dripify.
Steve Folland: Dripify?
Mark Grainger: Which does sound suspect I know. It's the Spotify for drips.
Steve Folland: So a couple of years ago, you find things have gone a lot quieter than they used to.
There's less word of mouth, so, but you've been proactive about it and started doing cold outreach.
Mark Grainger: I also completely changed my branding and everything else and you know, repositioned myself last year.
Steve Folland: Right okay.
Mark Grainger: Well, I was operating as a limited company and it was called Blossom Tree Copy. And I had that for about five or six years.
And I just kind of came to the realization that a lot of the people who I was looking at who were, you know, doing well, or that I respected, were using their own names and that what I'd set up to make myself look bigger when I was a bit younger, to sort of so that people were taking advantage of the sole... Little Sole Trader Mark, was kind of being a barrier now, and it was like, well, you know, do you want them to find you or do you find the company and then you find the person like the one actual person who's there, or do just say, this is who I am.
So I changed that to Mark Grainger Brand Copywriter because that's where my focus is rather than anything else. So it was just a bit more immediate.
And when things were quieter, it just gave me a focus to say, I need a new website. I need, you know, some new graphics, some branding and, and this is what I'm going to focus on.
So I kind of got a bit lost in being the generalist. Yeah. So it was just very much a, a mental exercise that's also just helped to strengthen sort of what I look like from the outside and who can see what I want to do.
And that did actually work immediately. I got, as soon as I set everything up, I got a client who wanted exactly that. Who wanted their own brand positioning, sorted out, and LinkedIn copy and all sorts of stuff like that. So I was quite pleased with that.
Steve Folland: Nice. So did you, when you first went freelance, were you Mark Grainger?
Mark Grainger: Yep. Just, just Mark Graniger. That was it.
Steve Folland: And at some point you thought maybe I should be...
Mark Grainger: I was doing work with, people in my local area and I was... so how old would I have been? 24? 23, 24. And I just kind of had the impression that when I came in with a decent proposal bid price that they were just a bit like, oh, why? You know, why, why, why are you charging that much?
It was possibly a self-confidence thing. It was possibly that I was working with people who didn't value the work. But... so I then set up the idea of a company to hide behind, to a degree. Quite a large degree.
Yeah. And then, like I say, it just sort of felt like it stopped working and it felt like the, that's... when, a couple of years ago when things went quieter, it felt like people were looking more for people to work with, like as individuals, a lot more personal branding. And I kind of got outta the habit of posting as a company and I was posting myself, you know, and not being as serious with what I post on LinkedIn.
And it kind of felt a bit antithetical to see I do human to human personal writing, but I'm also pretending to be a company of one. So I was like, yeah, I think I need to change that and be proactive and that was, that was, that was very proactive and... but I enjoyed it because it was just, I think I've got a bit into a rut with how I was presenting myself.
It just gave it a bit of freedom, so I, I said I need some new web copy. I came up, it's, it's notoriously difficult for copywriters to write their own web copy. We hate it. But I came up with the sort of hero text from my website for something that just made me laugh and I thought, well, that's my North Star.
I'm gonna take 50 minutes and I'm gonna write the rest of this. It was a one page website. And that's what I did, and I, I'm just really happy with it as opposed to overthinking it. I think it's a, a good snapshot of who I'm and what I offer.
Steve Folland: Fantastic. So when things get quiet, you, you, you relaunched your business effectively. You niched at that point as well then
Mark Grainger: In terms of service yeah.
Steve Folland: And also then got more proactive. Yeah. With cold reach and even trying the in-person events.
Mark Grainger: Mm-hmm. Well that's, that's, how's that, that's next week.
Steve Folland: Oh, right.
Mark Grainger: I haven't started. I've thought I've, I've got to the point of, of booking. I'll, we'll see how that goes next week.
Steve Folland: So how about the, like the, I guess the way you work, like, do you work from home? Do you tend to work on one big project? Like how's, how do you deal..?
Mark Grainger: Yeah, I work from home and I, I was working from home before it was cool. So yeah, I just, that, that ahead of, ahead of the curve. I worked from home at all points.
I've never coveted having an office space or anywhere, anything like that. it's always been... I like my little space. So it was originally, you know, my bedroom in my parents' house. And then when I moved in to my own place with my partner, we had a spare room and I was like, right, that's, that's becoming the office. It's got a nice view out the window.
And it just means I could just sit and play my music loud and work, and that's, that's how I focus best. And for short bursts as well. I'm not very good at sitting for like 6, 7, 8 hours. It's very much a case of I'll do about two hours work in a block and then come back to it.
And, you know, it's, it's a little bit piecemeal, but it's, it's when you fo sort of focus on creative work, I find it easier to give you brain a bit of a rest and come at it when you're best... best suited of tackling it, I'd say.
And I struggle to work in coffee shops again because they've got their own tunes playing and there's, there's people around. I mean, I, I go to our village coffee shop like once a day, but that's because instead of having 10 minutes of peace and quiet in my day, I like to have 10 minutes of hustle and bustle to escape the house.
It's... and the dog likes it, the dog won't let me walk past 'cause she gets cups of cream. So...
Steve Folland: So you literally get there every day?
Mark Grainger: Pretty much.
Steve Folland: So do, do you work there or do you just chill there?
Mark Grainger: No, I, I just have a cuppa and that's it. And then I, so I, I, because of the way mine and my partner's schedules work, I tend to do the morning dog walk. And a lot of the time that will end up going past the cafe or the coffee roastery that's just a bit further down.
It's become a bit of a routine that I'll go and, and have a cuppa. The dog likes it 'cause she gets a lot of fuss or a treat. Yeah, I do think there's, there's a slight element of having supplemented alcohol with coffee because I did give up the small amount of alcohol I was drinking a week about a year and a half ago.
And my desire for coffee has shot up accordingly. But it's honestly, it's so close. It's like three minutes down, down the main street. I can't really avoid it. And it's just like, this dog wants to go in. I quite like a coffee. I'll get my brain going. There's lots of excuses.
Steve Folland: Do those people know you're a writer?
Mark Grainger: I don't think so. I'm not sure. There's a lot of people who go in every day. So I think there's a lot of people in different social situations that don't really question why somebody's got time to go in every day.
Steve Folland: Yeah, I like that. 'cause I always think when you become a regular like that, you know the staff have a nickname for you. You know what I mean?
Mark Grainger: I think they just know the dog to be honest. I think my nickname's 'Winnie's Dad'. Just, I come into my office and focus, and that's just, it's my space to do the work, you know, and it's, rather than taking the laptop out to the cafe or anything like that,
Steve Folland: I really like that. The way you've figured out the balance that works for you.
Mark Grainger: Yeah, I think there's, you know, there's a... I think people have this idea sometimes, especially when people are working from home through COVID, obviously they had a very different set of barriers. You know, they had, they basically had had to work eight hours a day and people were like, how do you cope with it? But I was like, well, I don't work eight hours a day for a start.
And it's just as I've gone on and as I've got deeper into freelancing in my career, I've kind of just learned to lean into what works for me a lot more. And sometimes, you know, that's doing a couple of hours on the weekend and sometimes it's, you know, abandoning the bit of work that you're trying to do that day because your brain is just not firing on it and coming back to it.
And yeah, I'm, I'm just, I'm very keen to have a work life balance as well, so that's kind of why I don't stick to anything rigid. Other than, you know, I very rarely work before 10 o'clock in the morning and I very rarely work after five, especially when it's dark nights. Like the, these last winter months have just been absolutely killer for focusing past five o'clock. I dunno what that is.
But it's, it's often in chunks. I'd say It's like two hour chunks, come back, do another two hours. Yeah. Have a meal, do another two hours. It's, it works best for me, I'd say.
Steve Folland: You said earlier. I have a business, but I'm not a businessman. How have you dealt with the business side of it as the years have gone on?
Mark Grainger: I mean, the first thing I ever did was get an accountant, and I think that was one of the wisest decisions I ever made. I don't think my C grade GCSE in maths would've held up. So yes, I mean, I.. I am very keen to get the right people around me, and to give work to the people who know how to do it.
So, you know, that's why I've always gone to specific people for branding or website building on that side of things. I did get a contract written up, mostly to ensure a payment within a set period of time and that people can't just, you know, dick you about so easily.
Pricing's an interesting one. I tend to have a, a sort of idea about what's standard in the industry and don't ask me how I have this idea. It is just sort of coalesces from the people you talk to. I think, you know, a lot of people are quite open about it, so it's like you work out what's about right.
I kind of have a sliding scale approach. On one hand the money I get living in Durham goes further than a freelancer in the South. So, you know, if somebody in London charges £450 and I charge £450, it's the same for the client, but for me, that will go a lot further. So sometimes I can afford to lower my cost a little bit.
I went to a talk years ago by the copywriter Andy Maslin and I didn't agree with all of it. He, he, he did spend some time saying, you should charge like a thousand pounds for a press release. And I was just like, I, I don't think that's gonna fly up in Tyne and Wear personally. But he did sort of say, you know, don't be too rigid and set, like, how much money would you be prepared to walk away from and not do this project? And how much money would you be prepared to take and balance your time?
So I, I have... a sort of radius, if you get, if I guess, is, of how much a job will cost. It's mostly like a starting price and then again, how how much depths required will push the price up a little bit. So it's not always a flat cost system.
And sometimes if it's, say, a startup or a charity who I want to work with, I know they don't have as much money. I'll, you know I can work it out to what will work for me essentially and still let me do the work. 'Cause sometimes a fun job is a fun job, even if it's not as much money as you get for a less fun job.
So I'm fairly flexible. In that sort of regard, I think it's important to have a starting price and kind of go from there, set an expectation.
Steve Folland: Do you share that starting price, ie it's on your website or is this a starting price that's in your head. And then that radius, the circle spreads.
Mark Grainger: Some of it's, better known than others. So I would say I would always go, I think somewhere a website starts from say £2000.
In terms of content, that's where it gets a bit trickier, like so say if somebody wants an, an amount of blogs or whatever, 'cause that very much depends on how technical it is and how much they want. I mean, to be fair, I tend to operate from a day rate, in my head and then see how many days this will cost and work it out that way because it just keeps things straight for me.
And there's, there's also a slight element where if you tell people that you, you're doing it on a day rate they, you know, they might think they're saving a bit more than it's a project fee. If you say, I'm spending four days on it, that kinda sounds nicer to them than seeing it's this amount of money. That's what I've found anyway.
But I, I'm just, I'm a simple person to be honest. I like to keep things straight and simple because I'm a lifestyle business. I'm very much a lifestyle business. I just know how much I need to get by and what the worth of a project is, and if I can accommodate people who I want to work with, I will.
And I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but it means I'm never sort of charging way over the odds. I'm charging what I need to charge.
Steve Folland: When you say lifestyle business...
Mark Grainger: For me, it means that I, you know, I'm not focused on year on year growth. I'm not focused on building a team. I'm not focused on having an office. I'm focused on paying my mortgage and, you know, buying my dog food and buying some shiny things for myself and just, you know...
Success for me is good feedback and good projects. It's never been about abundant financial success because I'd probably have to do a lot more work... and as I've established, I like my work life balance.
So yeah, that, that's how I class as a lifestyle business. Just to be able to live in the way that you want to live. That's quite important.
Steve Folland: You mentioned earlier, about during COVID there being, a collection of you copywriters who supported each other. Yeah. So have you had much support and... and how important has that been to you over the past few years?
Mark Grainger: I, I always say that it's, it's about community and not competition. You know, I, I never feel like I'm competing with other writers, although we are, sometimes we do go for the same clients. If, if somebody puts a post out for writers, we all chip in, but... everyone I've come across has, we have each other's back, and I'm always kind of keen to make people realize that I am there to support other people as well.
And I just, I don't think it could do this without a support network, without people who understand exactly what you're going through. People describe it as lonely, but for me it's more solitary, because that's how I work best. But to have people who understand what you're going through on a daily basis and to say, oh, I had that, or I did that, or I had this problem as well.
And to sort of, you know, just to be heard, I guess? They don't have to even do anything but just to be heard. And you never know where those connections will go, I mean... again, it's, I've had work of people in those contexts and other writers passing on work and such, and it's just, yeah, it's vital to... to get out of your own head a bit and to be able to talk to people.
And like I say, I mean I will always tell people that I'm there if they need to talk to me as well. You know, even people I don't know that well say if somebody's posting that they're struggling on LinkedIn, I do tend to send a little message and make sure that people know that they can talk. The inbox is open. 'Cause you know, it's only a few minutes outta my day, but just to know that it's not just your problem, especially when things are being quiet.
We're all in this loop of saying how, you know, don't show any weakness, don't show any fear, but it's, I think it's actually vital to acknowledge the hard times and say that when there's a problem, and to then find out that it's not just you being shit, it's, it's, you know, it's a wider scale issue.
You know, it's, it's not just you who's not getting any work. It's, you know, there's loads of people in the middle who are just, who are having issues with it. And just to know that is not necessarily reassuring, but it makes you less alone.
So I think community is one of the biggest parts of being a freelancer, as I'm sure you're great given, given your jumper.
Steve Folland: But how do you stay in touch? Where are you having those conversations? Just in LinkedIn DMs?
Mark Grainger: No, no, there's, there's, there's WhatsApps and calls and stuff. Yeah. It just, just depends. I mean, there's, some of it's in LinkedIn, people I know better I've got, you know, telephone numbers.
There's... I went to Manchester for a weekend of gigs last year, and I met up with three people. One I had met before, one I only knew off LinkedIn, and one who I'd, I just connected with, but he was, he was, up for a chat. I was just like, yeah, just fill, fill your time and meet people.
And yeah, you, you see, you don't know where it's gonna go, but you know, then you start connecting on other platforms and more social, less businessy platforms and stuff, and I just think it's worth having those people to call on and just to know that you've got this circle around you who are all in the same boat, I guess.
Steve Folland: What would you say has been the most challenging part of being freelance?
Mark Grainger: For me it's, it's the business development. I think it's, yeah. It's just that idea of putting myself out there and being very single-mindedly focused on bringing work in, I guess.
So I, I tend to take quite a passive approach and, you know, just be myself on, you know, online and stuff and be like, please like me, if you like me, might wanna work with me. That's kind of how I've sort of done it. And the idea of being more salesy is... is an issue.
Because, yeah, I, I am a creative who just doesn't want to work for somebody else, and that's, that's, that's as far as my business aspirations go really.
Steve Folland: Okay, now Mark, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Mark Grainger: It probably comes back to running a business and I would say to be more focused on what I would call the boring processes side, and to start doing that a lot earlier. You know, I, I think if I'd built something more durable in my earlier years, I wouldn't have had such a squeaky bum time over the last couple of years.
So yeah, I, I think I would say that is to make sure you do the groundwork and not just focus on the fun stuff, because I think yeah... play against your strength a little bit just to build something stronger.
Steve Folland: Hmm. Is there anything in particular that you would do?
Mark Grainger: To start sort of the outreach side of things a lot quicker. 'Cause like I said, I very much just relied on word of mouth and referrals as opposed to putting myself out there. So I think it would be in terms of having more confidence and feeling less icky about the sort of selling yourself side.
And just getting over that and doing it and making sure you had a stronger foundation. 'Cause that's what I'm trying to do now, and it feels like more work at 38 than I would've done 10 years ago.
Steve Folland: But on the plus side, you have all this experience.
Mark Grainger: That's very true.
Steve Folland: And confidence. You can also take solace in the fact that the reason those word of mouths and referrals and stuff came to you is because you were actually good at building those relationships. Now you're just building different ones, perhaps.
Mark Grainger: Yeah. I think the other side of it as well is I think I would tell myself to be more confident about who I am from the start and not be, you know, writing as a business or trying to be too serious.
I think there's a lot to be said about letting you freak flag fly, which is difficult to see it quite quickly. Harder to say than I was expecting it to be.
Yeah. And just, and being more yourself and trusting that people will resonate with that rather than trying to flatten yourself and round the edges off, which I think I was guilty of doing when I was sort of starting off as a freelancer, and now I'm very much not guilty of doing. So definitely being yourself more earlier on. I think is the other, another valuable thing that I would like to have done. But you know, you change and you grow. You're not the same as you were 10, 20 years ago.
Steve Folland: Mark it's been so good talking to you. Thanks so much for coming on. Go to being freelance.com. There will be links through so that you can find Mark online.
There'll be his website of course, go say hi to him on LinkedIn and there's obviously over 300 episodes of this here podcast. It doesn't matter what they do for a living. It doesn't have to be a copywriter if you're a copywriter or designer, if you are a designer. Just take a look through, pick one, jump in and learn from others as they to share their experience.
Which I thank you Mark, for doing as well. And all the best being freelance!
Mark Grainger: Thanks Steve. See you soon.