Website Designer & Developer Ryan Gittings
About this episode…
WEBSITE DESIGNER & DEVELOPER RYAN GITTINGS
Ryan started freelancing still in his teens, mentored by his first (and only) boss.
For SEO purposes he has a freelancer website and a local agency site, but doesn’t want to grow bigger than being a solo business. He’s putting work-life balance ahead of profits.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
SEO OVER SOCIAL
Ryan doesn’t use social media or go to networking events, he lets SEO bring him clients. He has a freelance website and an ‘agency’ website for his company Made By Kingfisher…
“From the SEO point of view, the Made By Kingfisher site targets everything locally (Herefordshire). It has all the local work. So people who are interested in local brands and companies, they can see the portfolio that's basically curated for them.
And then likewise, the freelance site is just all the stuff that's mainly sort of London or Manchester or Birmingham, the sort of areas where most people are looking for a freelancer are generally finding me…”
HAPPY AS SOLO BUSINESS
Whilst Ryan has an agency brand and site, he’s decided he doesn’t want to grow an actual agency with a team, he’s happy being a company of one.
“A few years ago I got really, really busy and I thought about scaling up and hiring contractors. But I love building for the web. I love what I do and I didn't wanna be managing other people to do that.
So I made a very conscious decision to focus on prioritising a healthy work-life balance and enjoying my work, over just trying to make masses of profit.”
HAVING A WEBSITE THAT QUALIFIES LEADS
Ryan’s day and week was being disrupted by poor leads. Now by having a form on his site that asks for a budget range and whether they’re an individual, company or agency, he’s filtering the leads. It’s not just giving him the right potential clients though, it’s giving him back his time…
“It's just about refining that sales process. Ultimately trying to give me more time as a company owner really and whether that's working on projects or managing the company, but just not wasting time on people. Just about time management. And I think that's one of the key things.”
SWITCHING OFF
To try and split ‘work’ from ‘life’ in the worklife balance, Ryan has a specific office he works from. But that doesn’t his mind is as easy to switch off as his computer…
“I find it hard to switch off. I really do. Sometimes I'm sitting there watching telly or trying to chill and I'm just thinking about something in the back of my mind, because you just can't switch off.
But I've got better over the years. I strictly try and work nine till five, anything outside of those hours is a side project. And even then I make sure I don't run over, like eight o'clock maximum - turn it off. Just set clear boundaries really. Routine and structure - make sure you don't deviate too much from that.”
SIDE PROJECT PASSION FEEDS YOUR WORK
Ryan is a big tech fan. Alongside his web design work he’s also working on his own iOS app. Party he likes having something that is his own and not dictated to by clients but it’s more than that…
“It just gives you that freedom and that expression. You know, doing the same thing day in, day out can get very monotonous and you have periods where you just lose that bit of motivation and that's not because of a specific client or a specific project, it's just, you're doing the same thing every day.
Making sure that you're not doing too much work is obviously one way of dealing with that, but also having other things that sort of open the mind and give you the passion. So I do the side project.”
PERSONALITY ON YOUR SITE
Ryan gets his personality out there on his website and forges relationships with clients…
“Especially as a freelancer, you’re investing in me as an individual. So I've got to convince you, the client to invest in me as a person, as well as someone who can work for them.
So I try and put as much personality on my website. I mention things like my favorite movie, my favorite song, just to try and get a bit of my personality on the screen really.
And I have great relationships with clients… we catch up on a Monday… and just chat about life. No matter who you work with, obviously work is very important and there's a job to be done, but there's also personalities and people behind every company.
I think that's done me well over time - to make friends as well as colleagues.”
WORRY LESS, IN THE FUTURE IT’LL SEEM SMALL
Ryan has come to realise, those client issues that seem big at the time are really small in the grand scheme of things. Try and remember that when you’re in the moment, there’s bigger things - try not worry…
“I think at the time when certain events happen, whether that's clients that are unhappy or something doesn't work out or you try something and it fails - at the time, you can get really anxious about it and worry about it so much, especially being freelance, thinking about it in the evenings and making it affect your actual day to day life.
Actually going through it, it's the only thing you can think about.
When you look back and then you think about what actually happened and how you sort of learned and you moved on and in the grand scheme of things, it was a really small event.
There's bigger problems in the world. There's things that are much bigger than one client being unhappy. So worry less and look on the bigger grand scheme of things.”
“Worry Less.
There's bigger problems in the world. Worry less. Look on the bigger, grand scheme of things.
Web Designer Ryan Gittings
More from Ryan Gittings
Ryan Gittings freelancer website
Ryan’s agency site - Made By Kingfisher
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Freelance Web Designer & Developer Ryan Gittings
Steve Folland:
How about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Ryan Gittings:
So take it back about 10 years now, or back before that literally. Started building sites in my own time, worked on from school, college had a bit of a passion for it, bit of a love for it. Started building out some sites and created almost like a fake portfolio. And then luck happened - literally just up the road from me, there was an agency who did websites, signs, vehicle graphics, that sort of stuff. It wasn't even hiring really. I just walked in on the off chance and ended up getting hired part-time so went two, three days a week.
Steve Folland:
You literally just turned up one day?!
Ryan Gittings:
Yeah, <laugh> It sounded like a crazy idea, but my parents were like, you need to get a job. And they said, literally just go around, half a day to a day, just drop into as many companies who you'd like to work for as possible and just walk in there, show them your portfolio and see what you can do.
Steve Folland:
And the portfolio was stuff that you created yourself.
Ryan Gittings:
Yeah. So friends and family who wanted sites, almost some fake sites that I just sort of designed and built or redesigned just to get a body of work so I could go somewhere knowing, well, I can show this. They can look at it, see it, and I can send them links afterwards, just to prove that I can do it.
Steve Folland:
Love it. And how old were you?
Ryan Gittings:
I was 16, 17 at the time. So I was part-time work, part-time college because I went to college for three days a week. And then the other two, I was working. And then after the first year of college I actually dropped out. I passed everything. It wasn't the case of, you know, 'a college dropout', but I literally just thought it's not really much point being here. You know, I was studying sort of computer science. I don't wanna blow my own trumpet, but I found it really easy and not really challenging. So I dropped off college and then went from part-time to near fulltime at this agency.
Ryan Gittings:
Generally, my day to day was building websites, but because it was just me and my boss, at the time I was helping out with all sorts of other things like the signs aspect. It was a massive learning curve for me, not only in obviously working and being employed, but also my boss was really good in getting me involved with everything. So, in terms of the business aspect, running the business, even being involved in meetings and stuff and as a 16, 17 year old, having my boss have the confidence in me to take me to that sort of stuff was obviously amazing. Really valuable for me being where I am today to be honest.
Ryan Gittings:
I was there two or three years. I just felt I could do a lot more myself just web focused rather than having all these other aspects involved. So I sort of slowly went freelance and started working on freelance stuff - mainly once again for friends and family, more than anything and the odd person or acquaintance I knew and then eventually went full-time freelance. So, did that for a couple of years and obviously still doing that now, but then I also set up my own company where I sort of house everything in. So I have like a freelance site that I target all the freelance stuff - people who are looking for freelance. Then also a local agency, it's called Made By King Fisher, which houses everything, but is also geared towards more Herefordshire based companies who are looking for an agency service, which I can generally offer. You know, I have experience with the design, the development, even sort of doing stuff with apps and things. So that's how I got to where I am today.
Steve Folland:
Really wanna talk about that whole thing of having one freelance persona and one agency persona. But before we do, how did you manage that transition between working employed and then going freelance?What did you do to prepare and make that leap?
Ryan Gittings:
It's a very good question. So I probably did it in an unhealthy way really. So what I was doing, I was working full time and I was slowly but surely building up work to work evenings and weekends. And it got to the stage where I was working very unhealthy hours. But at that age, not having life exposure, I suppose, you know, it was doable, it was manageable. So I started moonlighting and it got to the stage where I was running out of time in the day. So I thought something has to obviously change and that's where I started thinking, right. I should make the leap to freelance. So it made that bridge from employment to freelance, quite easy. Cuz I built up the confidence knowing that I have enough work to take it on.
Ryan Gittings:
So yeah, it was fairly risk free. Both me being young and still living with parents and then also, you know, having the confidence in the workflow that I could probably maintain it, cuz I'd done that for a long period of time where I felt I had enough work to keep me going at the time in my life where I had very little outgoings. As I say, looking back on it now it probably wasn't healthy. I wouldn't recommend it necessarily, but it was the way that I did it. But I probably wouldn't have taken the leap straight from employment to freelance without having that bit of a trial period where I was moonlighting.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. So it gave you the confidence that you could get the work.
Ryan Gittings:
Yeah. And just confidence that I could run my own business as well. So I was both employed and self-employed technically at the time and obviously there was things like tax returns and invoicing and management of time, but also of finance as well. You know, it just gave me confidence in myself that I actually can, I can run a business. Like I really wouldn't recommend someone to do that <laugh> but in my case it worked out.
Steve Folland:
It's amazing that your boss at that agency was getting you so involved. What, in particular, do you think you learned that you then took forward into your own business?
Ryan Gittings:
The biggest thing I think for me was getting involved in the meetings and the process from initial contact with a client to final delivery. Being involved in that initial consultation, he was very good at that part of it. So I learned a lot of tips and tricks off him and the structure and process around getting an initial lead and converting that. And then also making sure you deliver quality, but on time, and really having that client relationship. So I probably learned a bit of the sales aspect I think, which I wouldn't have gained being employed as just a web designer because I'd just be sat in front of a computer every day. And that was not only in the web world, it was in the graphics, the vehicle graphics, the sign stuff...
Ryan Gittings:
So it gave me a really well rounded piece of knowledge to take forward into my own stuff. And that's obviously influenced things like my website and the way I market myself, my sales process, how that works and how I convert leads. And then also just client relationships, you know, having that good relationship with clients on an ongoing basis. You know, generally I'll back myself if I get a lead in that's a good lead that I really want, you know, I'd say eight times out of 10, I convert it - if the conditions are right in terms of budget and timeframe and things. So I probably wouldn't have had that without him to be fair.
Steve Folland:
So you went full time freelance when you were about 20?
Ryan Gittings:
Uh, yeah. 19, I think.
Steve Folland:
And from that very first moment, did you do the whole, 'here's me as a freelancer Ryan Gittings,' and 'here's me as an agency Made By King Fisher'. Did you do that from the off?
Ryan Gittings:
No, I didn't. So there was a period of two or three years, I think. So I'd gone freelance. I set up a website that was purely just freelance. I knew I wanted to rank for certain terms both locally and nationally, let's say. So I always sort of honed in ranking for terms like 'freelance web designer', 'freelance web developer', specifically, locally to begin with. So when I first started up, I had that initial sort of wave of clients where, you know, I'd done some work, they referred me on and so on. And the agency that I actually worked for ended, finishing for one reason or another, and a lot of the clients that I worked for before sort of came to me and needed my help because they knew of my name.
Ryan Gittings:
They just Googled me, found my website and said, I think you used to work at the agency. That gave me a real head start in my freelance. So for sort of two years, I felt like I didn't even really need to market myself too much. Which is obviously very fortunate. But after that, I started to look at every aspect of the business. So I was starting to rank for terms like freelance web designer and getting some traffic from there. But I also then saw a massive gap in the Herefordshire market at the time. And it's changed a little bit now, but at the time, companies specifically weren't really looking for freelance web designers, they were looking for agencies. And I'd been invited to tender for a few things and the term freelance put a few companies off. I don't know whether it is that sort of stigmatism around it or just because it's one individual that they're relying on, but it very much put me on the back foot when I was pitching for stuff.
Steve Folland:
But how did you know that?
Ryan Gittings:
Mainly from the pitching process. So I pitched for jobs and generally I wasn't getting it. And I just sort of dug into the details as to why that was, asking for feedback and a good percentage of it was because I was an individual and freelance, and probably not having that opportunity to explain how I can compare to an agency or what the benefits are in comparison to an agency. And I think that was very much a local thing, you know, especially Herefordshire not being the technological sort of hub at the time, I think everything's changed especially in the last few years, but at the time it was just a little bit behind the major cities. So I always had an idea of trying to create a company, a hub where obviously the web stuff sort of went into it, but sort of side projects, other things all set under this umbrella of Made By King Fisher.
Ryan Gittings:
That's why it's not too web related the company name - cuz I knew I wanted to do side projects and different bits, and maybe branch out in the future. So that's where I sort of housed it. And for the last sort of couple of years, I've made that Made by King Fisher company, just an agency where I target mainly for SEO, more than anything else, people who are searching for a local agency within the local areas really. So that's how it came about. And that's the reasons for it in terms of my initial target of trying to get more local work or break down that freelance barrier. Probably not as successful as I'd like it to have been. I've definitely got local work, but I wouldn't say it's been, you know, a massive increase. I still think there are local agencies who already do a great job who I'm competing against, who do well and get a lot of the jobs. But it's always changing, everything's adapting, but that was the initial reason for it.
Steve Folland:
Have you worked on projects where you've hired other people to work with you?
Ryan Gittings:
Once or twice. So a few years ago I got really, really busy and I thought about scaling up and, you know, hiring contractors or working with specific people who I knew and trusted, but I love building for the web. I love what I do. And I didn't wanna be managing other people to do that. So I made a very conscious decision, to focus on prioritising healthy work-life balance and enjoying my work, over just trying to make masses of profit. I have in terms of the company, I have employed one other member of staff for a period of time, just to help out with the running of business, so inquiries, accounting and just general bookkeeping and, just to allow me to focus on what I want to do and that's build websites.
Ryan Gittings:
And I'm looking to do that again shortly - it's got to the stage where you just can't do it all. So just having someone part-time to take that load off a little bit, will hopefully allow me to stay focused on building projects that I love to work on really.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. And is Made By King Fisher and Ryan Gittings, separate companies or when it comes to invoicing and the tax people, are they the same thing?
Ryan Gittings:
They're the same thing effectively. Technically Ryan Gittings is just a trading name of Made By King Fisher Limited. All the invoicing goes through Made By King Fisher Limited and even the initial query, once you send it through to me through the freelance site, I get back with a Made By King Fisher signature and all that sort of stuff. Sometimes I get called out on it, like, you know, what's this, but I just explain the reasoning behind it. It's never been an issue. I think it's just opened more doors. As I say, probably in hindsight, not as beneficial as I'd liked it to have been, but certainly helped.
Ryan Gittings:
I would say, you know, especially from the SEO point of view, because the Made By King Fisher site targets everything locally. It has all the local work. So people who are interested in local brands and companies, they can see the portfolio that's basically curated for them. And then likewise, the freelance site is just all the stuff that's, you know, mainly sort of London or Manchester or Birmingham, them sort of areas where, you know, most of the people who are looking for freelancer are generally finding me.
Steve Folland:
You mentioned earlier about filtering through budgets and expectations of leads. On the Made By King Fisher website, I noticed you've got something on your contact form. If I wanted to work with you, I had to say whether I was an individual, a company, an agency, and then there were various ranges for my budget. How have you found putting that on there?
Ryan Gittings:
I never used to have that. So it's been a really refined sales process over the years, really. So I started initially, as everyone does with just a basic contact form - it worked well. I obviously got inquiries, but what I found was there was a high percentage of low quality leads where it was eating my time. So as you can imagine, I work from nine till five, I have a period in the day where I'd like to be able to work on a project for a period of time. So I have that focus, so I'm not stopping and starting all the time. Initially I had my phone number on there. I had a standard inquiry form. A large amount of low quality leads - people who were looking for like WIX or Squarespace and had under £300 budget - who someone in the industry will cater for but I knew that wasn't me.
Ryan Gittings:
So it was absolutely pointless receiving these inquiries, spending time, either replying to the emails for them or answering the phone and spending 20 minutes explaining... And you imagine that over a period of a week and how much time I was losing, it just wasn't effective at all. My initial sort of step was to remove my phone number and make sure all the inquiries went through a contact form initially. And then eventually I put in a call back request, so people could put a call back in. That was an effective step - it managed my time a lot better, but I was still getting them low quality leads. So then I started to introduce the individual company element and then likewise, the budget element, just so the people who had a £300 budget, knew that I wouldn't cater for them because that's where I sit in the industry - someone will, but that's just not me.
Ryan Gittings:
So it sort of put them off or reduced them amount of leads where that budget wasn't suitable. And likewise with the individual company, it just gave me another parameter to sort of hone in on my sales process, to know which way to go with it and how to approach it, whether to arrange a call straight away, or to go down an email route where I can send them a Type Form with a brief form - so it's just about refining that sales process. And once again, ultimately trying to give me more time as a company owner really and whether that's working on projects or managing the company, but just not wasting time on people. Just about time management really. And I think that's one of the key things.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. So it worked.
Ryan Gittings:
Yeah. It definitely works. I would say now I have it, I have a really optimized workflow. As I say, when you start, you start to try and get everything and listen to everyone and try and get as many leads in as possible. But you soon start to realise, especially when you haven't got that time management where you just get a random phone call, when you're right in the middle of something or you get an email that you want to quickly to, because you want to show that, you know, you respond quickly and things - you just can't sustain it for a period of time. You might be able to do it for a period of months, but when you have that longevity and go over a period of years, you just can't do it. So some of the things that I try and do to sort of help with time management is try and keep a block between before lunch and after lunch, purely for projects. And then I allow call-back requests within certain time periods. So I use Calendly to manage when people can schedule calls in. And likewise I'll set a certain period of time to reply to new new inquiries in a day. So it still gives me that big chunk to actually work on stuff that matters - the clients themselves, but then also, keep my sales process flowing as realistically quickly as possible.
Steve Folland:
You've mentioned the importance of SEO. Is that the main way that you get work? People searching for you or searching for what you offer and then finding you, or do you put yourself out into the world in any other ways?
Ryan Gittings:
So I would say years ago, SEO was pretty much primarily the only way that I got work. Apart from the initial period, when I had a lot of referrals, I had a lot of work purely through SEO. And that was, as I say, terms about freelance web designer, people looking for web design locally, and that sort of worked for a period of time. I think, especially the last year or two, especially since COVID, that's changed a little bit. There's more people looking for recommendations and word of mouth,- I don't know why that is, but I have a lot more referrals saying, you know, X company referred you. And obviously it makes it a lot easier to get the job anyway, if you're being referred and have that bit of trust building anyway, but in terms of marketing, especially right now, that is pretty much purely the only methods that are used. So I have obviously word of mouth, which probably makes up a larger percentage than it ever did right now and then SEO for both sites, both the freelance site and the agency site. And that's really all I do. I've looked at things like social media, a bit of offline stuff, but it's just not as effective. SEO is definitely where people go.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. So you are not somebody who's like hammering LinkedIn or Twitter or Instagram...
Ryan Gittings:
No, not at all.
Steve Folland:
God, you must have so much time in your day. I'm jealous.
Ryan Gittings:
<laugh> No. And once again, it's one of those things where I think should I be doing that?
Steve Folland:
Sounds like what you're doing works
Ryan Gittings:
Well, yeah, but to be fair, if I analyse my current client makeup: a lot of it is repeat work. So I do a lot of work with a company called Reed and they're amazing clients, so big shout out to them - I do lots of campaigns and stuff for them. So do a lot of repeat work and lots of sites. I work with a company in London as well, who do lots of little sort of mini projects in sites. So I have a lot of repeat work that I've had for a long period of time now. So that makes up my sort of base layer of work, if that makes sense? And then you have these inquiries that sort of layer it up and it gives me quite a consistent and steady income which is obviously great and they're really enjoyable projects.
Ryan Gittings:
So I'm in that lovely position where I can sort of pick and choose what I get to work on. And if it sits with my values and things like that. So, yeah, very fortunate position. But it's just one of them things that's just been built up over time, really, you know, clients come and go, but I think I'm fortunate enough to always so far, touch wood, to always have these major clients who have given me repeat work month on month, which is a blessing really.
Steve Folland:
You mentioned how important worklife balance was. How have you found switching off?
Ryan Gittings:
I think that's a constant battle. That's the biggest thing that makes me want to go back to employment. I find it hard to switch off. I really do. So I can be sat there. I've got my main sort of design work. I also have side projects that I'm working on. And especially the side projects themselves because you're working nine to five on your normal stuff. And then I try and keep a nice sort of worklife balance, but I also want to actually launch a side project. And I've always been honest with that. I've always wanted to have something that I own, I run and want to put out into the world, that isn't client based, it's something on my own, but having the time to obviously do that along with the actual nine to five day is challenging.
Ryan Gittings:
Sometimes I'm sitting there watching telly or trying to chill and I'm just thinking about something in the back of my mind, just because you just can't switch off. But to be fair, you know, my family, my friends, they obviously hate help with that. ButI've got better over the years to be fair. I strictly try and work nine till five, anything outside of them hours is a side project. And even then I make sure I don't run over, like eight o'clock maximum, turn it off. So it's not affecting sort of sleep and things. And just set them clear boundaries really. Generally try and keep to routine. Routine and structure and make sure you don't deviate too much from that.
Steve Folland:
What sort of side project are you working on?
Ryan Gittings:
So I'm currently working on an app. I'm a bit bit of an Apple fan boy. I love technology. I like to keep my hand over everything so I can see how things are evolving and quite often they overlap a little bit. I've always wanted to do an OS application and started work about two years ago now, really on it. Basically like a movie and TV tracking app, just I have personal need more than anything. <laugh>
Steve Folland:
And like you've pointed out it feels good having something not dictated to by a client, it's your thing.
Ryan Gittings:
Yeah. It just gives you that freedom and that expression. You know, doing the same thing day in, day out can get very monotonous and you have periods, especially across the year where you just lose that bit of motivation and that's not because of a specific client or a specific project, it's just, you're doing the same thing every day. And I think obviously making sure that you're not doing too much work is obviously one way of dealing with that, but also having other things that sort of open the mind and give you the passion, especially with it being in the same sector, but not exactly the same.
Ryan Gittings:
For me, it gives me that bit of passion, again, that bit of burn to keep involved, especially with technology, but then also just do something different and give your mind something different to work on. And especially being freelance and not having colleagues and things. I think it can get you down a little bit just working on the web every day. So I do the side project. It doesn't dictate my complete free time at all. Like I don't really work weekends on it at all. It's mainly evenings or if I have a bit of a quiet day where I've got a gap in work, I can just pick it up for an hour or two. But I think, yeah, it just gives me that bit of, bit of fresh air almost to just think about something different, but still actively use the mind. Even when I go on vacation or holiday, I'm not one to just switch off. I can't just sit there and switch off, I'm always thinking about something and I suppose that's my way of, of having a little bit of break from the web and working on something different.
Steve Folland:
You said about not having colleagues. Are there other people like you where you live? Are you part of anything?
Ryan Gittings:
So I've met up with a couple of freelancers over the years and shared experiences and got to know them. But there aren't too many and there definitely isn't, or as far as I'm aware anyway, there isn't a community of freelancers, especially in the web, I don't know about as a whole, you know, in terms of the digital community. I don't know. Actually, you've just given me an idea, maybe set something up...
Steve Folland:
So there's nobody in your circle doing what you do. So beyond that first boss you had, have you been figuring out everything yourself?
Ryan Gittings:
Yeah, basically there's a lot of live and learn. There's lots of things that I would do differently in hindsight, but a lot of just learning on the job really and almost winging it. And I think it's one of the things where people are a bit scared to try things or do things. But we literally live and learn by all mistakes. Really, if you jump in head first and try and have a plan around what you want to do and how you want to do it and stick by some of your key sort of values and principles, you know, I don't think you can go too far wrong really. You can just learn. Obviously my situation was different because at the time, I didn't have too much risk, that's the key thing. I think if I was to do it now, let's say with the situation I'm in, getting married later this year, you look on it a bit differently. So obviously a massive risk now. But at the time, it wasn't so much, so I can appreciate that as well.
Steve Folland:
Good point. And how about where you work? Do you work from home?
Ryan Gittings:
Yeah, I think one of my key principles, especially from when I worked in an office before - I wanted to have a dedicated space where I'd go and work. So ended up building a little office in the garden at my parents' house, lucky enough. And that's basically where I spend all my nine to five time. So I separate home and work very much clearly. And I would always go down that route if you can, if not, I'd probably end up working in coffee shops or a shared office or something like that, just to separate the two. Because I do find, especially when I've been working on side projects, if I'm just working in the house where I've had a bit of time off and I'm just working on something, I've found it very hard to distinct when I've finished - something mentally doesn't doesn't click for me.
Ryan Gittings:
So I think having that dedicated space, whether it's a room, whether it's as an outbuilding or you're going out somewhere for it, for me, it helps massively. That might not obviously be the same for everyone. But for me, I think just having a distinct area where you say this is work here. I think makes for a more productive start, but then also when you do finish, you feel that sense of right, actually I'm finished now this is a separate space. We turn off now.
Steve Folland:
If you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Ryan Gittings:
I think just to worry less. I think at the time when certain events happen, whether that's clients that are unhappy or something doesn't work out or you try something and it fails just at a time, you can get just really anxious about it and worry about it so much, especially being freelance, thinking about it in the evenings and making it affect your actual day to day life. And when you're actually going through it, it's like the only thing you can think about. When you look back and then you think about what actually happened and how you sort of learned and you moved on and in the grand scheme of things, it was a really small event. I think that's my thing. I am a worrier. And I put a lot of expectation on myself. So I expect every client to be 100% happy with everything. So I'd just say worry less, you know, there's bigger problems in the world. There's things that are much bigger than one client being unhappy. So worry less and look on the bigger grand scheme things.
Steve Folland:
Just quickly - I notice on your freelance website that you put your age. So it says 27. Why do you say your age? Because I don't often see that.
Ryan Gittings:
It's a good point. So, years ago I was very, very, self-conscious about putting my age on there for obvious reasons people going, oh, you know, he's 18, 19 years old. He's not gonna be as good as someone who's 30 or 40 who has that experience. Especially when I was under like 22, 23, I think it sounds very young. But as I've actually got into that 25 sort of bracket, it's actually been an advantage point for me. So a lot of clients have come and said, it's really good that you are young because you've grown up in that generation of being around iPhones and technology. So I think it's another advantage point for me, you know, I've grown up in that technol technological space. Clients seem to respond to that.
Ryan Gittings:
So that's why I mention it. And on my site, especially my freelance site, I try and put as much personality out as I can on there. Because especially as a freelancer, you are investing in me as an individual. So I've got to convince you the client to invest in me as a person, as well as someone who can obviously work for them. So I try and put as much personality on there. I mention things like my favorite movie, my favorite song, just to try and get a bit of my personality on the screen really. And I try and do that as much as I can. And I have great relationships with clients who are also Man United supporters. So we catch up on a Monday after a bad weekend, which we have a lot of lately <laugh>, and just chat about life. No matter who you work with, obviously work is very important and there's a job to be done always, but there's also personalities and people behind every company.
Ryan Gittings:
So it's about having that communication and having that good relationship. And I think that's done me well over time - to make friends as well as colleagues and working relationships.
Steve Folland:
Ryan, thank you so much and all the best being freelance!
Ryan Gittings:
Likewise. Great to be on.
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