The power of choice - Cultural Consultant Marge Ainsley
Photography by Chris Payne.
This episode of the Being Freelance podcast is supported by Gold Stag Accounts.
Plain talking, friendly, freelance accountants. Masters of Xero, FreeAgent and Quickbooks, they love to help freelancers get their finances sorted.
Set up a free chat today at goldstagaccounts.co.uk/beingfreelance.
The power of choice - Cultural Consultant Marge Ainsley
After she hit the ten-year mark in her freelance career, Marge took a step back to reassess. She hired a business coach and began reflecting on her values, her ideal clients and the way she structures her time.
In the process, she discovered the power of choice. The choice to work with clients who share her values. To take a month off every summer. To start a second business that fills a creative hole.
Marge chats to Steve about what she learned from that period of reflection and the changes it brought it about. She also talks about her joint side project, Museum Freelance, and the work they’re doing to support and lobby for freelancers in the Arts and Heritage sector.
More from Marge Ainsley
Marge’s website for consultancy
Marge’s website for photography
Museum Freelance
Marge’s ‘Business Reboot’ post
Marge’s post about her new visual identity
Useful links
Paul Jarvis’ episode - Better, not bigger
The Being Freelance Book Club reviews Company of One, by Paul Jarvis
Simon Seligman (Marge’s business coach)
More from Steve Folland
Join us in the Being Freelance community
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Cultural Consultant Marge Ainsley and Steve Folland
Marge Ainsley: Hey, Steve.
Steve Folland: So looking forward to this. How about we get started here on how you got started being freelance?
Marge Ainsley: Okay. So I went freelance in 2008. So what are we on now? So that's 12 years ago, and at the time, I was working in a regional museum. I was head of marketing there. I'd been there for about 18 months and I was looking for something new, something to go into. I'd been working in the sector, in the arts and heritage sector, for about seven or eight years, something like that.
Marge Ainsley: So I hadn't been in the sector that long, but I had kind of dabbled with the sort of freelancing a little bit, not really thought about it seriously. Then I was on holiday one summer, and an ex-colleague of mine said to me, "Oh, do you know anyone who wants a press officer job?" going at the theatre that they worked at in Manchester.
Marge Ainsley: I said to her, "Well, would you consider freelance rather than part-time?" And she said, "Yes." As soon as I got back from the holiday, I handed my notice in and went freelance. So I wouldn't necessarily say that's the best way to do it. I didn't have a business plan. I hadn't checked whether there was a market for the kind of work that I do. I'm being totally honest with you.
Marge Ainsley: So yeah, I knew the sector well. I had a couple of contacts who were freelance actually, but I don't know, I just was ready for a change. And I just thought, do you know what, I'm just going to give this a go.
Marge Ainsley: She offered me, it was the equivalent, essentially, of three days a week. Obviously, it wasn't a three days a week job. It was more like a three days a week equivalent for a retainer, and I did that for six months, working with them.
Marge Ainsley: That meant that I had that kind of financial cushion. I could build up all the stuff that I should have been doing, like my website and my brand and everything else that you have to do, and maybe kind of put a plan together.
Marge Ainsley: So I used almost that six months as a bit of a testbed really. Is it right for me? Can I make a go of this? I always say with my work and Museum freelance, which is a network that I help run ... I'm sure we'll come on to talk about that ... freelancing isn't for everyone.
Marge Ainsley: So I think that six months just really made me think, oh, I really, really like this. This is great. I really want to be doing this. And I always said if it didn't work out, I would just go back and get a job. So yeah, and what I started off doing then isn't quite the same as what I'm doing now as well. Steve Folland: So that was working doing press office type stuff?
Marge Ainsley: Well, yeah. When I first went freelance and sorted everything out, my offer predominantly was marketing. So I set up anyway with Marge Ainsley Marketing. Do I did, marketing strategy and marketing tactical work, and press and PR.
Marge Ainsley: I think one of the things that you've got to do as a freelancer, and this is certainly something that's worked for me, is changing with the times, but change with what the market needs. So for me, it became really obvious quite early on that there was a call for a lot more evidencing in the sector. And proving that you have either done what you set out to do for a funder or for your own internal KPIs and that kind of thing.
Marge Ainsley: I'd done quite a bit of research and evaluation work in my PAYE full-time roles in museums previously. I thought, I think there's an opportunity here to start offering independent evaluation and research services to the sector.
Marge Ainsley: So probably about two or three years in, I went back, did a load of CPD around that aspect of my work. I'd say when I started freelancing, about 75% was the marketing. And now I would say 75% of what I do is independent evaluations or audience research. So it's really kind of varied; that's why I love it. Steve Folland: I love the way ... It sounds like you listen to what people might actually want and then adapt it.
Marge Ainsley: Yeah. I don't think you can stay static, and maybe that's one reason why I feel like I've not stopped. I mean I did stop when I got to 10 years in, and really looked at what I was doing and why I was doing it. But I think it is you've got to always be looking out whether there's still a demand for what you do, what the needs are of the sector that you're in, and adapt to that accordingly.
Marge Ainsley: It's like the situation we find ourselves in at the moment. So we're now talking during the pandemic, and how are we as freelancers going to respond to that? How can we draw on our ...? If you run a business, even if you don't think you have, you've got some entrepreneurial spirit in you; you have to to run your own business.
Marge Ainsley: So how can you use that to really think about, oh, crikey, right. Okay, what do I need to do? What do my clients need now? My target audience, obviously, is these museums and the cultural sector, but what are they looking for now? What are their audiences needing now, and how do we meet the needs there?
Steve Folland: So when you were finding those first clients, when you set out, was it the sort of thing where you apply for jobs as they come up? Or was it that you were cold emailing or people you'd already met? How were you getting work, basically?
Marge Ainsley: Yeah, when I started, it was a case of actually getting in touch with my existing network of senior managers across museums, marketing managers across museums, and existing freelancers. That's been the key for me.
Marge Ainsley: Last year I looked back over 11 years of freelancing, it was at that stage. I looked at where my work come from, right? So 70% nearly of all my contracts over the years have come through word of mouth, 70%. So I've not really applied for tons of stuff, and museums do put contracts out.
Marge Ainsley: So there are briefs out there on various different websites, and procurement is quite a challenge. But for me, it's been about very much investing in terms of that marketing side. It's about constantly being visible, whether that's speaking engagements or writing articles or being involved in Twitter discussions.
Marge Ainsley: I think I was fortunate that I had a couple of contacts, who were already freelance, who invited me to pitch for some work with them, and that's continued. When I've worked with associates like that, and I call them associates, I think these days is these fancy terms, isn't there? Gosh I sound like a dinosaur saying that, these days.
Marge Ainsley: But the funds are termed collective. There's collective. I don't know whether it's different or not, but for me it just, it was a no brainer working with associates right from the start; a very small group of trusted individuals who did similar things, but not identical to me.
Marge Ainsley: So right from the start, that's been a massive ... I think it's actually been why the business has carried on working with associates. So again, looking back at those numbers, 20% of my work, my contracts I've worked on have been with associates.
Marge Ainsley: And that's either them asking me to pitch in for a job with them, or they've just invited me. They say, "Look, we've won this. Do you want to help out?" You ended up getting involved in projects that perhaps you wouldn't necessarily have done by yourself.
Marge Ainsley: But also because the projects they were working on sometimes were with groups of museums ... So, for example, a cross-marketing campaign across 15 different museums in a particular region. That then opens up those 15 museums for them to get to know you and then call you back individually for future work.
Marge Ainsley: So it's been hugely important for me in my business that I do that work, and it's not just from a financial or a marketing perspective either. I think it's just one of the best things that you can do in terms of keeping sane and keeping that sense of isolation right down there, because you've got a team. You're working with those other people.
Marge Ainsley: I've got this range of associates around me where I can either draw on them to put in for work or they can approach me for work, and that's just been one of the best things.
Steve Folland: I love the fact that you have the figures to do with your business, like the 70%, the 20%.
Marge Ainsley: Yeah. I mean the only reason I did it, and being a ... I shouldn't really say this, should I? But being a research person, I should really know all the numbers. I hadn't really looked, and the only reason I did it was because, as part of the Museum Freelance network I mentioned before, we run a training course for that.
Marge Ainsley: I said to my co-trainer, Christina, I was like, "Oh, it'd be really interesting to actually look back through our contracts and be able to tell people." Because one of the things that we talk about on the course, apart from the realities of freelancing, is the importance of word of mouth, developing a reputation and that kind of thing. So, yeah, I just found it fascinating going back and actually looking.
Marge Ainsley: The other interesting thing that I found out was a third of my clients, they've booked me more than once, so a third repeat clients. So again, that just, to me, shows the importance of this, even if you finished work with a client.
Marge Ainsley: If I see an article that's of interest to a client I know three or five years ago or whatever, I'll just drop them an email and say, "Oh, I've just spotted this. I thought you might be interested."
Marge Ainsley: Because even if they've not got any work or any budgets, so you pay to do anything at this point, you never know who they're talking to. You never know, they might have a colleague and say, "Well, we really could do with this" and you just popped up in their inbox. So it's that constant reminder about that I'm still here, I'm still here that we all have to do and have to find the time to do.
Steve Folland: Yeah. You mentioned taking stock 10 years in. I loved that you did that. So what did you do?
Marge Ainsley: Yeah, 10-year itch. So yeah, 10 years in, I suppose it's a bit like that Talking Heads lyric, isn't it, about how did I get here? I kind of just, and I'm not saying this in a big-headed way, and those people who know me will know I'm not like that, but I just have not stopped. I've not stopped at all.
Marge Ainsley: I've been loving what I was doing. I've been flat out working and I woke up one January, 10 years in, and I just felt a bit bored. I know that sounds terrible, doesn't it, with saying, "Oh, I love it" and the rest of it. But I felt really just this sense of something not quite right.
Marge Ainsley: I was looking at the work I was doing, and had some similar jobs. And I was thinking, I'm not really making a difference with what I'm doing here. I was writing the same kind of plans for people, and to varying lengths of those plans being used or not used. And then I just thought, you know what, I need to really just stop and reflect on why I'm doing what I'm doing and who I'm working for.
Marge Ainsley: I've not refreshed my brand at all in the visual identity sense of brand. I was still operating on the 2008 website, which looked horrendous. So there was a real opportunity there to look at me as a brand, rather than doing that work for my clients. So when I talk about brand, that whole range of what we stand for, why we're doing what we're doing, I don't mean brand as in I needed to change my logo.
Marge Ainsley: So I ended up working with a business coach, and I sound surprised saying that because I was always really quite sniffy about business coaches. And again, being totally honest, I just thought I know what I'm doing. I've been fine for 10 years. I don't need a business coach. Why does anyone need a business coach? Just crack on, read a few articles, it'd be fine.
Marge Ainsley: I was really brave, and I got in touch with a guy called Simon Seligman. He actually works as a freelancer within the cultural sector as well, but I didn't know that at the time, and does the coaching work. So there was a nice link there. And do you know what, Steve? It was the best thing I have ever done, actually.
Marge Ainsley: It really, really helped me unpack what I was doing in terms of my values for the business, of who I want to work with, and do they have the same values as me? We went through a whole process of just looking at how I was actually structuring my time as a freelancer as well.
Marge Ainsley: I suppose the main thing that came out of it, apart from that leading into me then working with a designer to redo my identity and everything else based on those values, is this whole thing around choice. And not underestimating that power of choice, and also permission with freelancing.
Marge Ainsley: So for years and years I just was tied to my desk, and I felt like I ... I bet many of us do. I've heard people talk about this before on the podcast; guilt of leaving your desk to have a lunch break, or guilt of not being there 24/7 in the holidays.
Marge Ainsley: I think some of that actually came from when I went freelance. I read all those business leader books on this. I remember distinctly reading this one by Karen Brady, the ... Is it Aston Villa chairman? The one that was on-
Steve Folland: The Apprentice.
Marge Ainsley: The Apprentice, that's the one. She wrote a book and in it ... Well, she's written many books, I think. But one of these books I read was talking about you must be on your phone 24/7. You've got to be there for your clients all the time.
Marge Ainsley: Now in some industries maybe that is true. And if your goal and your drive in freelancing is about making as much money as you can, then maybe that is what you need to do. But for me ... and it sounds stupid really because it's not rocket science ... for me, it was just a revelation having someone say to me, and hold that mirror up, which is what coaches do.
Marge Ainsley: They don't tell you what to do. They get you to come up with these answers yourself. Just someone saying "Who are you waiting for permission from? You can give yourself permission to go for a lunch break. You can give yourself permission to take a holiday. You don't have a boss anymore that's going to do that, give you a pat on the back. You've got to do that yourself."
Marge Ainsley: And that for me, just really helped. The whole business coaching thing just helped with my mindset a little bit, and it was a little bit like a reset button, actually, in year 10. And then this choice thing as well; you can choose.
Marge Ainsley: Now, obviously you can be more choosy when you've been freelancing 10 years versus when you've been freelancing six months. But for me it was choice as a powerful thing in terms of I can choose to work with clients who share my values. I don't have to work with clients who don't share my values anymore. I don't have to work for clients if they aren't on the same page in terms of the fee, or they aren't on the same page in terms of my commitments in a caring role at home.
Marge Ainsley: So that 10-year business coaching thing just really helped me refocus on the business. And I've carried on working with that coach since then, not as frequently. It's quite an intense period whilst I was working out the rebrand.
Marge Ainsley: Even if you're a bit kind of, "Oh, I'm just not sure about it" I'd really recommend you find someone that will sit down with you, or online have an introductory get to know you session first before you commit to anything ... they do do that ... and just give it a go and see if it's for you because it might really help. Steve Folland: How much time did you take out to go through that whole process?
Marge Ainsley: Yeah, so I ended up booking a month off in the summer. In the January I started working with Simon, and then we worked over the following months after that, leading me to July being off. We'd done all the groundwork.
Marge Ainsley: Then I took July off to do all the stuff like writing a brief for a designer for the rebrand, writing a brief for the website. So in that period between January and July we did all the stuff around values, and try to work out where I was going and what I was doing. Rather than me just going in January, "Right, I need a new brand" or "I need to work with different people."
Marge Ainsley: So it was a real investment in that time and that process. But for me, I needed to book and ring-fence that July off in the January. I couldn't get to April or May and go, "Right, I'm going to take July off" because I have projects.
Marge Ainsley: Again, I don't know whether this is slightly different in our sector. Sometimes you'll have projects that are just a few days work, but some of them might be a few days work over a period of time, like six months. I could be working on a big capital project where it was a big bill, and that goes on for quite a long time.
Marge Ainsley: So I can't just suddenly take July off. So it was put in the diary pretty much from probably the second discussion that I had with Simon. So that was ring-fenced, and then since then I've done exactly the same each year a central ... I think I've only had one of my ...
Marge Ainsley: I book a month off in the summer, and I'll use two weeks of that for a holiday and I'll use two weeks of that for business planning. If you can do it ... not everyone can do it ... it doesn't have to be a month. It could be three days.
Marge Ainsley: I know someone from the Museum freelance who takes themselves off to a hotel. They book two days away from family, and they just sit there and they plan and they do and they think. And I think it's that thing, isn't it, think? We're so busy delivering that sometimes we don't sit and do that just thinking time.
Marge Ainsley: So yeah, it was a real, real turning point, I think, that. Since then, I've slightly changed the way I work in terms of who I work with. The main difference I think is the type of work that I do. I'm focusing really on the projects that I want to work on. I have what I call a perfect client brief checklist. This came out of that bit of work with Simon really.
Marge Ainsley: So I screen everything I go for through this checklist. It's on my blog actually, so for the people that want to have a look at it. So there are things in there like does the work have purpose? Does the client share my values? Do they have a realistic budget and timeframe?
Marge Ainsley: Are they open to new ways of working or flexible approaches, with like creative things into the brief? Or flexible approaches in terms of how I work and when I work. Are they likely to pay? Do they have some kind of propensity to pay you? And I suppose is it going to stretch me, going to stretch me in a good way or in a bad way; so my health and wellbeing.
Marge Ainsley: I mean there's a few more things on the list. You can go have a look at it, but I use that. I'm reading it. It's stuck on my wall. I use that to really, really think about whether I should go for a piece of work.
Marge Ainsley: I think that's come because I found that, actually, if your values align with the client's values then, more often than not, it becomes a great project to work on. I have to say I've not had loads of projects that, I've not had any that have gone wrong, but I have had one where I've had to withdraw from in 12 years. Marge Ainsley: I've had ones where I've not enjoyed them as much as others. I'm not saying they'll all be perfect if I scan it through this checklist, but there's a greater likelihood, I think, that it would work out better. So yeah, I used that as well, and that came out of that piece of work.
Steve Folland: So cool. A few times you've mentioned Museum Freelance, so tell me about that.
Marge Ainsley: Well, I wasn't responsible for creating it in the first place. It's been going for five years, and it was set up by Christina Lister and Laura Crossley, and I came in in about a year into it. Museum Freelance was set up essentially to lobby and champion and support freelancers working specifically across museums, libraries, galleries, archives, and heritage sites.
Marge Ainsley: We run it voluntarily, so there's only so much that we can do. But I know our community has grown so much over those five years. And there's so much we want to do, but we've got to just bear in mind that there's only so many hours in the week.
Marge Ainsley: We have a conference every year. The purpose really is to get the freelancers to really think like a business, to really look at their health and wellbeing, to really be financially savvy. So there's that kind of conference side, and we also run training as well.
Marge Ainsley: I think we've done five training days over the last couple of years. That's specifically aimed at those who are either new to freelancing, and work within the first six to 12 months, or are thinking about freelancing.
Marge Ainsley: Then there's the social and community side. So we have a LinkedIn group and we do guest blogs on the website. We have Q&As on Twitter, and socials that we do usually in July and December. We have people try and get people to offer to do those in different regions.
Marge Ainsley: Then I suppose the other side is the lobbying; I suppose moving into the activist side on behalf of freelancers, and my goodness, have we shown that in the last few weeks. So I think I spent the first two weeks of lockdown trying really hard to lobby for support for freelancers, not just from the government support schemes perspective, but also within our own sector.
Marge Ainsley: It's just taken up so much time even just doing that. But I feel like it did help and it did get us somewhere, although we are still really concerned about all those freelancers who've fallen through the cracks.
Marge Ainsley: The other thing, I suppose, with the Museum Freelance is we've done, this year for the first time, again, just in a voluntary capacity, a kind of a state of Museum Freelance, a freelancing survey. So we actually put a survey out to the freelancers in January this year.
Marge Ainsley: We did that because we don't really know much about who Museum Freelancers are, what they do, how they feel, what kind of projects they work on, what they charge, how optimistic they are. There's not really been anything done like that.
Marge Ainsley: We're hoping to publish the results of that in the autumn, and use the findings from that survey to do more lobbying for freelancers.
Steve Folland: Man, it's huge!
Marge Ainsley: Yeah, that was the side project.
Steve Folland: Is it? It's hugely impressive. Good for you.
Marge Ainsley: I just love it, though. I love it, and it's actually, it's just really rewarding when you do get emails. That makes it all worthwhile. Yeah, it's a side project, but it's a side project that does, if you're not careful, take up quite a bit of your time.
Steve Folland: Yeah. How do you manage your time?
Marge Ainsley: Well, it's an interesting one, Steve. I think I've decided I'm just a person that likes to be busy. I don't know whether this is the right time to mention it, but I also launched a second business this year ... well, the tail end of last year.
Marge Ainsley: I've got that photography business, so I've kind of got that on the side as well. So I think for me ... and it comes back to this whole work-life thing, doesn't it? I don't know whether everyone would agree with me, but typically, you don't work in the museum sector for the money. You work in the museum sector because you love what it stands for, what we do.
Marge Ainsley: Now, I work in the sector because I think that the arts and culture, it has the power to really change ... I know this sounds really cheesy, but to change people's lives. And I see that through my evaluation work.
Marge Ainsley: Now, I have the privilege of talking to the people who the arts has made such a difference to their lives. So when you go into our sector, often it's because you really enjoy culture anyway. So for me, it's more of a blend, that work-life balance thing. Because for me, I'm doing stuff in an industry that I find fascinating and enjoy in my personal life as much in my professional life.
Marge Ainsley: And that's where the challenge comes from, I think, when you work freelance in our sector. Because you can quite easily, you could go to say a museum event, like say an exhibition opening on a night. That, really, you would count that in as work. You're networking. You are maybe looking for a bit of new business.
Marge Ainsley: You're there in your role as a freelancer for that museum because you've worked with them, but it's really fun and nice. You love seeing the exhibition because you really like exhibitions as well. So it blends, I think, into your home life maybe more so than maybe other sectors. I don't know.
Marge Ainsley: So time-wise, I'm a lot more strict than I used to be after my 10-year review thing. I used to literally sit probably on my desk from half seven until half seven. I'd work late in the evening. I'd work at weekends because of that Kevin Brady mindset I was talking about earlier that you've got to be on all the time.
Marge Ainsley: Now again, other people, that might be what they want to do. But for me, especially after that 10-year thing, I'm not great at it, but I'm a lot better at it. I will take a lunch break now. I will build in a run into my day.
Marge Ainsley: And I should mention a big thank you, shouldn't I, to everybody who did buy a being freelance mug last year at my run. So those of you who don't know, I recruited 40 people last year when I was 40 to raise 40,000 pounds for Alzheimer's research.
Marge Ainsley: We all went and did the Great North Run last September, and Steve did a really amazing offer for the mugs. So thank you to anyone listening who bought a mug. We are just shy of 40,000 pounds now, so I'm going back and I'm doing ... Well, I'm not going back because it's all virtual now, but yeah, we're going to get to that 40,000 if it kills me.
Marge Ainsley: But anyway, I'll do running. I'll build a run into my day, and I'm really, really strict on blocking out holidays. Like I said, I don't just get to the summer months ago, "All right, I'll take two weeks off, and they're in."
Marge Ainsley: I know if I go for a contract say, that's in September in my proposal, I will say to them, "I am on holiday in October on these dates" so they know upfront. I block those in for the whole year so that it doesn't ... It's dead easy to get carried away and just not have had that time in.
Marge Ainsley: I don't know. I think, like I say, people have maybe different views on that. I'm very much on the Paul Jarvis company at one level. I don't want to grow my business exponentially so I turn into the next whatever. I just want to bring enough in to cover my bills, have enough money for a holiday, have enough money for savings, have enough money for childcare, and have time.
Marge Ainsley: I think that's something I've really, really learned over the last two or three years. See, I've been freelancing for ages now, haven't I, and I'm still learning. For me, it's about buying back that time.
Marge Ainsley: So even outsourcing; I didn't really outsource stuff until maybe four years ago or something like that. Now I used to do all my own accounts. I used to do all my own transcribing of hours of interviews from research jobs. I just outsource that now because, for me, it's about having that time is so important.
Steve Folland: Oh my gosh. So as if you're not busy enough, cultural consultant and your Museum Freelance stuff, and family and running and charity work, you set up another business! So it's not just that you enjoy doing photography on the side. It's, you've actually turned it into a business.
Marge Ainsley: Yeah. This kind of also came out of the 10-year coaching stuff. I've done photography for ages. One of the things that I talked about with Simon, my coach, in those early sessions was just that even though I work in the creative sector, I don't do a lot of creative stuff myself.
Marge Ainsley: So I was really missing, and I realized that, I was really missing that creative outlet. I just woke up one day and thought, oh, I wonder whether I could actually make a go of this as a business.
Marge Ainsley: So I actually just really quickly sets it up, and I soft-launched it, I would say, kind of that August, September last year, and then really went for it from January. It is really fascinating, Steve, actually, to compare how I market and get clients for my museum consultancy work, which is B to B, with how I market my photography business, which there's a bit of B to B, but it's a lot of B to C as well.
Marge Ainsley: It's just completely different, and I do feel like I have a lot of learning and catching up to do around, actually, how do you launch a new business and how do you promote yourself as a photographer? It's very visual led. So yeah, it's been fascinating doing that. But yeah, like I say, I do like to keep busy.
Steve Folland: I mean, your photography work is brilliant, and I noticed ... So you have two separate websites, right? In fact two separate names, now I think about it.
Marge Ainsley: Yeah. That's right. So when I went freelance with the museum consultancy stuff originally, I've always just used my name for that, so Marge Ainsley, in fact, my maiden name. Actually with that one, I made the call very early on not to pigeonhole myself actually into the cultural sector.
Marge Ainsley: I didn't say I was a cultural consultant or a cultural marketing person at that point because I thought, oh, there might not be any work in the arts and heritage sector. I'll do marketing for any kind of business.
Marge Ainsley: Whereas now with Marge Ainsley, you'll see on my website, very, very much cultural sector-focused. I realized at the 10-year point I probably know what I'm doing by now. And I can probably say, "Actually, yes, I am just a person who works in the cultural sector." I lost all that worry about it. So that's kind of cultural sector stuff.
Marge Ainsley: Ironically, now that might not have been such a great idea. Then I didn't want to muddy the water really with the photography work because I felt it needed a separate brand; again, the values and the identity and everything that goes with that.
Marge Ainsley: So I set that up under Marge Bradshaw, which is my married name. So yeah, you'll notice the difference and the look between the two, and I think I like to keep it that way. I think it would have been difficult if someone was phoning up and saying, "Hi, is that Marge?" And I'm trying to work out whether a photography potential client or a museum client. So yeah, I keep them separate.
Steve Folland: Yeah. Marge, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Marge Ainsley: Oh, it's a tricky one I think because there would be so much to say. I think I would probably say be brave and be bold. So whether that's saying no more often, or going back to a client to question a brief ... I do a lot of that now. If the brief is awful or I don't understand something on the brief, or I want to suggest something, I will ring them. I will pick up the phone now, so just being a bit more brave and bold.
Marge Ainsley: I think, like I said earlier, don't underestimate the power of choice and permission. I think something that I did focus on right at the start, and has been the focus all along for me so I'll keep telling it myself ... And I would tell it my younger self ... is think like a business.
Marge Ainsley: We talk a lot about that on the Museum Freelance training. I think sometimes it's very easy, certainly when you first go freelance to ... You'll get an invoice in and you treat it like a salary or whatever. It's, "Oh, brilliant. I can go buy my shoes", whatever you want to buy.
Marge Ainsley: So even from thinking like a business from a financial perspective ... in fact, that lot is the money for the business, and it's not your monthly salary thing ... through to thinking like a business with your rates and the way you negotiate. So I think that's really important, and probably get a business coaching earlier, I would say.
Steve Folland: Marge, it's been so good to chat to you and to hear your story. You can go to beingfreelance.com, click on Margie's page. Obviously you can search for Marge if you're listening to this sometime in the future. As with all of our guests, there'll be links through so that you can find ... Well, we'll put a link to the blog post that Marge mentioned earlier.
Steve Folland: You can see her two different websites and Museum Freelance, if you want to check that out. Anyway, it's all at beingfreelance.com. While you're there, also check out the blog, the articles, the community click through. Come join us in there.
Steve Folland: And if you're a freelance parent, make sure you check out Doing It For The Kids. Search for Doing It For The Kids wherever you've got this podcast, and you can listen to that other podcast, what I do. So that's for self-employed parents.
Steve Folland: Anyway, for now, Marge, thank you so much. It's been great to chat to you at last. It's been awesome watching what you get up to, and all the best being freelance.
Marge Ainsley: Cheers, Steve. Thanks.