Illustrator Becky Prinn
About this podcast episode…
ILLUSTRATOR BECKY PRINN
What happens when the way you've been finding freelance work no longer works for you?
For illustrator Becky Prinn, it was time to try something different. And rather than spend hours trying to get noticed on LinkedIn, she decided to put her artwork directly into the hands of the people she wanted to work with.
Becky has been freelancing since 2016, following a decade working in-house in the greetings card industry. For a while, things worked well. Her artwork was being picked up online, particularly through Pinterest, and she had a steady relationship with an agency. But after having two children, juggling work around school and nursery calendars became increasingly overwhelming. Her online presence faded, the work changed, and she found herself feeling a little lost.
A chance meetup with other freelance parents helped her realise how much she'd been missing the company of people who understood what freelance life was really like. A creative business course called Mastered brought new connections, fresh confidence and a willingness to be a bit more vulnerable and less concerned with getting everything perfect.
That new confidence also prompted a different approach to finding clients. Which is how she finds herself personally writing and sending 100 Christmas cards in the height of summer to to businesses she wanted to work with. We go deep into this story and there’s lots to learn from Becky’s cold outreach approach.
In this episode:
How Becky went from in-house design to freelancing in 2016.
The impact of having children on her workload, confidence and creative business.
Finding a community of freelancers who understand the messy reality of working for yourself.
How a creative business course helped her embrace imperfection and vulnerability.
How to identify a potential client's needs and build an offer around them.
Tracking outreach, following up and learning from the businesses that say no.
Building relationships with other creatives rather than seeing them as competition.
Finding new opportunities by getting out there and meeting people.
This episode is available to watch in video here on the site, on Apple Podcasts, YouTube and Spotify - so you don’t miss out on Pepper the cat trying to steal the show.
Read a full transcript & get Links in the tabs.
More from BECKY PRINN
Becky’s website
Becky on Instagram
Becky on LinkedIn
More from Steve Folland
Becky Prinn:
[intro music] Hello, I'm Becky Prinn. I'm a freelance illustrator based in West Yorkshire.
Steve Folland:
And I'm Steve Folland, freelance podcast and video editor and creator of this here podcast and community. So, let's chat to Becky and find out what it's like for her being freelance. [music continues] As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. So I worked in-house for about 10 years. I did a textile design degree at the University of Leeds, and my first job was at Hallmark in pre-press. So, for those that don't know much about pre-press, kind of getting all the files ready for the printer, doing all the kind of technical stuff, but not really any design work. So I did that for a bit, then I worked at Card Factory for a bit and did a lot of cards, obviously, and the gift wrap and diaries and things, and really that side of it and the surface pattern. The freelance still wasn't on my mind at that moment. I went and then got another job at a smaller company where I was looking after the whole of the design department, and it was just me, and that was good, and I learned different parts of the business, which I think actually did help me later on.
Becky Prinn:
And then after a couple of years there, there was not really anywhere to go from there, so I decided to set up on my own. I built quite a good relationship with an art agency that we'd been using. So before I left, I kind of asked whether they'd be interested in taking me on as an artist if I were to become freelance, and they said yes. And I think having that as a little bit of an insurance that there was somewhere where I could actually go, someone that wanted my artwork and that I had a first step was really helpful. So then, when I first became freelance, I worked with an art agency, and I really enjoyed working like that, and I kind of gave myself kind of a set brief every week, so I'd have to come up with a certain amount of cards, and then I'd submit them to the agency at the end of the week. And this was just my kind of way of keeping the structure, I think, and making sure that I was producing work.
Becky Prinn:
So that was great, and I did that for a while, and then I had my two children, and then everything kind of became a lot more difficult, really. And I think that's when freelance really worked for me. We didn't have any family nearby, and I think just being able to kind of dip in and out of projects and just taking kind of smaller projects on if I needed to really helped. So that was kind of my start.
Steve Folland:
What year are we talking about when you left the company for the last time and set up on your own?
Becky Prinn:
So that would have been, I think, 2016.
Steve Folland:
And that was just because you wanted to. What was it, the creative challenge? You felt like you weren't going anywhere?
Becky Prinn:
I think there wasn't really anywhere to go in the company, and I think there's this thing where I live in West Yorkshire, there's three or four greetings card companies, and a lot of people kind of move between them. I'd already moved between a couple of them, and I didn't know if that's exactly what I wanted to carry on doing. And greetings card is a bit of a funny industry because it's a little bit of graphic design, a little bit of surface pattern, bit of kind of typography, but you're not kind of really an expert at anything. So it is quite difficult to then move across to kind of textile design or something because you haven't necessarily got those skills.
Becky Prinn:
So, at the time, I thought, "Well, I'll just do greetings cards because that's what I know I want to do," but it was kind of this idea that I wanted to do more, but I didn't really know what that necessarily looked like at the time.
Steve Folland:
And the agency that you went to, they specialised in greetings cards, did they?
Becky Prinn:
They actually specialised in children's books.
Steve Folland:
Oh, okay.
Becky Prinn:
So they had children's books is the main thing, and then greetings card is kind of on the side. Children's books is not something that appeals to me. I like textile design, I like pattern, I like colour, I like all the balance and things that go with that, but it's not the kind of... the narration and things, that's not my forte, and characters and things. That's not really what I'm interested in. So the reason I went with that agency was because I knew them and they did greetings cards. So it's kind of like a security. And I think eventually I probably outgrew it, the agency. I got what I needed, I knew what was coming, and maybe that was getting a little bit predictable as well.
Steve Folland:
Okay, so what happened next? So, you have your first child-
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm
Steve Folland:
... and you think, "Well, actually, now the benefit of running my own business, of being freelance, is that I have the flexibility." But how did you go about getting clients and how did work change?
Becky Prinn:
Well, initially, I think because I was putting so much work out there, and in my agency, the promotional material had a lot of my work in. I was pinning on Pinterest, and a lot of people actually just found me online, I think via Pinterest, via Instagram. And I had quite a big online presence, so people were kind of coming to me from those things and asking me to... I mean, some of the things were quite obscure things like illustration for seed packets and things, which was quite unusual, but it was fine. And a lot of the things that they wanted, they're existing illustrations that I already had that I just then could license to them. So that was helpful.
Becky Prinn:
But I think the real change came when I had my second child. There's something about having your first child, you know it's going to be massive, you're kind of prepared for that, and you've got nursery, which is open from half seven in the morning till six at night. You add another child into the mix, or a child that goes to school, and suddenly you've got school holidays. You finish your school day at 3:00, you've got to take them for 9:00, you've got assemblies to go to, this, that, and the other. And that's when I started feeling really kind of overwhelmed by having one at nursery, one at school, on different calendars, with different things going on. And I think it's then that I thought, "I don't know what I want to do, but it needs to change, and I can't keep up with this..." the workload that I was putting through. So I was quite popular with my greetings card agency because I produced so much work, because I could before I had my children, and even when I had my first. After that, I just didn't get the momentum. The clients weren't coming in the same way, for freelance clients as well, because I just wasn't having that online presence anymore, and I felt like I'd gone quiet. I felt like the world had changed as well.
Becky Prinn:
So much competition. I think there were a lot of online courses that got really good, so a lot of people wanted to be greetings cards designers and surface pattern illustrators and everything, and I just felt completely overwhelmed, and I felt old, and I felt like I'd been out of the business for too long, and I didn't want to be there doing that exact thing anymore.
Steve Folland:
So what did you do?
Becky Prinn:
I think something came up. I think I had an idea that I needed to do something, but didn't know what it was. And then I noticed on Instagram there was somebody that I'd been following that's known in your circle, I think, Sophie Greenwood. And she'd put some interesting things online about meetups and things for freelancers, and she also had this company she was involved with called Parents of Small Biz. This group were parents that had small children, and they'd meet up with the children, and I think hopefully be able to talk about things other than children as well if opportunity arose. So I went to an event in Leeds and sat and chatted with her while the kids played a little bit, and then there's another lady there who did greetings card design as well, that we went to the same uni and had the same tutors and everything. And I got such a buzz from that, and I thought, "Actually, there are people out there," because I'd been in my own little bubble and not known other people. Where I live, it's quite rural, so Leeds is kind of a good half-hour journey. But I really got a buzz from doing that. And then I think it must have been a few weeks later, I'd noticed that Sophie had put about this course that she'd done called Mastered and that she was involved with, which is a free course, a government-funded course to help creative businesses. So I looked into that and I applied for that, and I got into that last September. So it's actually been in the last year where I feel like everything's changed a lot, actually, and I still feel like I'm in the middle of that change.
Steve Folland:
Wow. Okay, there's a lot there. [both laughing] So just to put the time scale back in it, so you first went freelance in?
Becky Prinn:
2016.
Steve Folland:
So 10 years ago, and yet in the past year, there's been this real-
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm
Steve Folland:
... change.
Steve Folland:
Because you mentioned that shift of having the second child and then dealing with the schools and stuff, and your second child is how old?
Becky Prinn:
The youngest is five and a half.
Steve Folland:
There's a big chunk of time, isn't there, where you're... Well, I don't know. I'm not quite sure what the word is. But given that in the past year that you feel like there's been a change, and in the past year you've felt like you've found people who got it and were... There must have been quite an isolating period, maybe.
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm. There was, definitely. And when I look back, and even at the time, I kind of feel like I could use different words. I could say drifting, or I could say surviving. My oldest child didn't sleep very well, so he was up at 5:00 in the morning, and I just remember through the days thinking, just waiting for the naps so I could nap. And I actually, I had a sketchbook, and I remember we were doing sleep training outside, so I'd go in every couple of minutes when he'd cry and come back out. And having that sketchbook there with my brush pens where I could just not think about what I'm doing, but almost express myself through these felt tips in a really quick, loose way was kind of my break, I suppose, from being a parent, and just to kind of shift my mind away from how difficult it was at that time.
Steve Folland:
Mm.
Becky Prinn:
So bits were coming through. I'm lucky enough to work with this company called Thortful, which is a print-on-demand company, and they started about 10 years ago. I was with them from the beginning, so luckily I had some royalties coming through from that every month, which actually is not insubstantial. So that helped with the actual money side a little bit. And the other thing, I just thought, I still had work to do. I still had my agency saying, "Can you send me this file? Can you amend this background for this client? Can you do a card in this style but with balloons instead of presents?" So I still had bits going on, but it was nothing that kind of gave me joy or was a big meaty project. I did. I had a few, but I think emotionally, I couldn't take too much, because it was such a big time in my personal life.
Steve Folland:
Mm-hmm.
Becky Prinn:
And I remember thinking, when my daughter started school, and this course started in September, I was thinking, "It's a fresh start. It's a new start for her, and it's also a new start for me." And I quite like that, because I think sometimes parents feel a little bit lost when their children start school. And I felt like I could end up feeling like that. I'd been in the same place, doing the same thing for a long time, and I needed a fresh challenge. And that's when that course came at exactly the right point. And there was something about that. The course was great, but I think more than the course, it was just getting out, meeting people, doing all the things I wouldn't have thought I'd have done. I wouldn't have thought a year ago I would have applied to be on a podcast.
Steve Folland:
[chuckles]
Becky Prinn:
And I think it's just being around lots of people that are as... you know that don't have it sorted. There's this thought sometimes, you think, "Well, everyone else has got it sorted. I don't." When you're around all these people, and they're lovely people, but they're all messy and haven't got everything sorted, and there's kids stuff that go on, and they have to reschedule, this, that, and the other. But everybody's doing it together. And having that kind of community really helped my confidence.
Steve Folland:
The confidence that comes in knowing lots of other people don't have it sorted [chuckles] either.
Becky Prinn:
That's it.
Steve Folland:
Yeah.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. And having people to bounce ideas off. And a lot of these networks I'm in, they're not necessarily for illustrators. And I think initially, maybe I wanted more illustrators. But actually, there's the mindset, there's the struggles that people have. There's so much more that I get from just other people in a similar situation that is not directly to do with my actual work. Even the things that people watch on TV, the shows that people see, something that's on in Leeds in an evening, it's getting all of that, that you get in a regular job, people just chitchatting.
Steve Folland:
Yes.
Becky Prinn:
And I hadn't had that for so long.
Steve Folland:
Oh my gosh, yes. It reminds me when... Because I would be working from home with two little kids and dropping them off at nursery and school, just like you're saying. But I hadn't realised how antisocial, in effect, I had become until I started going into a co-work space maybe a couple of times a week. And just that inconsequential chat with the person at the front desk or with somebody in the kitchen, you're like, "Oh my God." [laughs] I hadn't realised that this thing was missing. Yeah.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. And I think it kind of lifts you.
Steve Folland:
Hmm.
Becky Prinn:
I probably thought before, "Oh, well, that's wasting time." If you're sat at a water cooler, when you're employed and you're chatting, and you think, "Oh, at least I'm getting paid for this." But when you're freelance, you're not. But I think it's just, I sometimes think in black and white, and I think it's so much more nuanced than that. And there's all these influences that come in, and giving you a lift is going to be great for what you're doing next.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. So, this course you did that you signed up for last September, it sounds like that was in person?
Becky Prinn:
Two in person, one at the beginning of the course and one at the end. So it's a 10-week course, eight weeks online, and just the beginning and the end ones in person for most of the day. And then you were split into groups where there was kind of six or seven people in a group, and you'd meet them once a week, and then you'd have a seminar with an expert for once a week as well. So you'd have to have six hours a week dedicated to this course, which actually, it did feel quite a lot. It's all relative, isn't it? But when you've got children and you've got other bits going on, it's quite a commitment. But I think then because everybody's committed and got an end goal, or not an end goal, but they've got common thread going on with their business. And we got really close, and then I met other people from those people, and talking about the networking events that they'd go to, and networking events that didn't seem like networking events. Not the kind of traditional ones that we might think of sometimes with lots of kind of businessy people and standing around and trying to make awkward conversation.
Steve Folland:
So what was the shift that it made to your business, given that you'd been in business for almost 10 years?
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
You had your skills, you were dealing with business things like licensing contracts and all of it. To one extent, you must have known what you were doing.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
So what shift was made?
Becky Prinn:
I think it was maybe more a shift to that it's okay to be vulnerable and okay to be a bit messy. For example, a year ago, I would have probably come on this podcast, and I would have made sure that my hair and makeup were done and that I looked like I was being 'professional'. And I think it's that acceptance that it's okay to come on here and be real, and that's the people that I want to be around. And that then if I go into a meeting or have a podcast or something and it's not 100% right, then maybe I don't beat myself up so much about it. It's just one of those things, and one thing will get... I still think in numbers and black and white, so I was thinking, one time I might think, "Well, 70%, that was okay." And sometimes it might be more, sometimes it might be less.
Becky Prinn:
But just not that everything has to be- ... absolutely amazing, and then that I procrastinate over doing this thing. I do still do that with my artwork sometimes, but I think I'm getting better at everything, not having to have a perfectionist attitude about things, and not having to try and look flawless or appear flawless. And that I talk to people about my anxiety and social anxiety and things, and I actually think, whether it's coincidence or not, that it has lessened. I don't know whether that's me being open about it or talking about it more, or just age and the kind of confidence that comes with age, but I'm not ashamed of it anymore. It's just something that's there sometimes.
Steve Folland:
You mentioned at one point about you had a good online presence and that was serving you well. Pinterest was one of them. How else would you...
Becky Prinn:
I think because I did so much work for my agency, that really helped. So then, the agency would have all my artwork online, and then so people would share it from the agency, and then they'd send out probably PDFs or something, whatever, the online books for people to look at, customers and things. And they'd go to the trade shows as well. So yeah, it was online. I think it's just because I was producing so much work and that, yeah, Pinterest would kind of share things organically.
Becky Prinn:
Didn't do much with LinkedIn. I did a little bit with Instagram and kind of my agency would as well, and they had obviously a bigger following than I did. And then this print-on-demand site now, that's really quite big, Thortful. Early on, I'd kind of do takeover days and things with that. So, there were little things that I'd do to try and promote my work, but they were still in a very self-contained little safe pocket, I think.
Steve Folland:
Because then you said you felt like that presence dropped away.
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
What changed, and have you built it back up again?
Becky Prinn:
So, what changed is I had children, so I wasn't producing the things so much. So, the artwork that was on my agency then was old. It wasn't getting shared so much. It wasn't being put in the catalogues. The bits and pieces that I did that were more for me, I probably wouldn't share them, possibly because I wasn't in the most confident space, so I wouldn't feel as confident pushing that. And obviously, more and more people getting good and interested in surface pattern and things, and just it becoming a bigger space, so you can get lost in it a little bit more.
Becky Prinn:
And I think what changed is maybe I thought of doing things in a bit of a different way. I find LinkedIn and Instagram and things difficult, and I know a lot of people do. And all these kind of the hooks and things that people say you need to do, and it just felt so inauthentic. And every time I sat down to do it, it just felt icky to me.
Becky Prinn:
So I thought, "I don't want to do that." So what I decided to do instead was to do some illustrations and do some cards. So I did an illustration of Leeds Corn Exchange, which is a big landmark in Leeds, and sent it out to some businesses that I wanted to work with. And I handwrote all these cards, and I handwrote over 100 of them, and I thought, "I want to get in front of the people that I want to work with. I don't want to play this fighting game." Not fighting game, but be fighting to get noticed on LinkedIn, because words are not my strong point. It would take me two hours to sit and write a LinkedIn post, and I still wouldn't be happy about it. I was like, "Right, well, let's just do what I'm good at and that I want to promote, and put it in front of people and try and get noticed that way."
Steve Folland:
So you created greetings cards, which you'd illustrated, but then you wrote in them. What was the... If you're sending these, and 100 is a lot to handwrite. [laughing]
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Steve Folland:
Talk me through that a bit more, basically. Like, who were you selecting, and with what you were writing, how detailed was that to each company that you were approaching, and what were you hoping to get out of it?
Becky Prinn:
So it took me quite a long time to actually work out how to set up something that was going to give information and be appealing to the eye and be personal. The illustration came first, but I think like a lot of my work, a lot of creatives, I didn't set out to send greetings cards when I did these illustrations. I did these illustrations, and they are quite in like a, I call it a scrappy style. I don't mean that scrappy. I don't mean it to sound like I'm being self-deprecating, but it's quite kind of loose and sketchy. And then I thought, "If I'm doing these, and I really like drawing these buildings," and then I did another landmark in Leeds, "then if I can actually get these illustrations in front of people that will know this building, recognize it, then maybe they might want me to illustrate their shop front."
Steve Folland:
Right.
Becky Prinn:
So I kept it kind of local to start with. One, because otherwise it's just far too many places to even think of. And it's a little bit of trial and error, but I've kind of gone for, and the people that have been really interested have been kind of high-end restaurants, cafes, art galleries, and hotels. So the idea was they could get Christmas cards from me. I would print Christmas cards for them of their shop front, and I would even, if they wanted me to, write the cards and send them for them.
Becky Prinn:
Because in all this marketing thing, marketing modules, it's kind of like, what's somebody's pain point? So I was thinking, well, their pain point, their problem is that they're really busy. They want to connect with their customers in a personal way, because you don't want a Christmas email. So, people want to be able to connect with others. They don't necessarily have the time to do it. They aren't going to go out and necessarily look for Christmas cards that look like their shops. So, if somebody's coming to them saying, "I can do all this for you. This is the price," put all of that information on it. I kind of said, brands that I like, kind of like Liberty and things. You see Liberty buildings and things, and they kind of use their buildings and the illustration to kind of promote them. And they're just a nice piece of artwork that people can have in their homes. So, that was kind of my thought process.
Becky Prinn:
But even as I'm explaining it now, this is a creative brain. [both chuckling] So, little bits pop up here and there, and somehow I manage to kind of put it all down together so that I'm kind of saying, "Look, if you want to appeal to your customers, maybe something that's really personal, that someone might want to keep, that is not run-of-the-mill, not an email, and it's not like a cheap 10 for a pound card, then this is something different, and it looks quality, and it's going to be good for your brand."
Steve Folland:
So, each one was printed, because it's card, and it had the offer on it as well, but then you're also handwriting an explanation and personalising it to that particular business.
Becky Prinn:
That's it, yeah.
Steve Folland:
I love it. [both laughing] But still, 100 is a lot.
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
I love the fact that this is local to you as well, given that the whole world is our oyster in an online world. You're going for local businesses.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
And you're also looking at the pain point and thinking, "Okay, well, even if they wanted me to illustrate this, they still might not have the time to write them and send them. And if they like my handwriting, maybe they'll pay me [chuckling] to write them."
Becky Prinn:
Yeah, that's it.
Steve Folland:
How long did this take? How did you track it? So that you know that... Because it is so handwritten and everything, did you have a spreadsheet, for example, that was saying, "I have sent to this person-"
Becky Prinn:
Yes.
Steve Folland:
"... and I haven't heard back," that kind of...
Becky Prinn:
Yeah, so this is obviously not the way that one should do it. But again, creative mind, lots of bits of paper. And then somebody, a very wise person said, "Do you think maybe it would be a good idea to put these in a spreadsheet?" I'm like, "Yes, that would be a good idea to put it in a spreadsheet." So yeah, so then I'd handwritten things, tried to find the owners of the business or the head of marketing or whatever, and then I end up putting it all in a spreadsheet, colour-coded, and then sending reminder emails, making sure they were a different colour.
Becky Prinn:
I can be structured if I need to be, but I kind of have to remind myself, because otherwise it's very easy to just be like, "Oh, I sent it to them, and I sent it to them," and next week, "Oh, I don't think I sent it to them." So yeah, so I do have a spreadsheet now. And some people have said, "Oh, yeah, this is great, but we're really busy at the moment. It's not for me for a couple of months." So then I've got a note on my spreadsheet. I get back in contact with them and say, "You were interested, it wasn't the right time, but do you want to talk about it now?"
Steve Folland:
So, you've sent the thing, but you are following up if you've not heard from them, and then making notes to follow up again.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah, that's it. And especially people have been interested. And I also really appreciate this, some people have said, "Love the card. We don't have budget for that at the moment." But even them doing that, it's given me information. So, little shops selling kids' toys and things, beautiful shops, and I think they genuinely liked the artwork, but we all know the high street's struggling. So, even though I'm trying to make it affordable for people, I still have to obviously make a living, and these are professionally printed and everything. So, for some people, it's just not viable. And I had a wedding dress shop say the same. So now, I've got that information. They're not necessarily the ones that I target again when I go wider or offer a different offering.
Steve Folland:
Yes, I get you. Yeah, because maybe a hotel or a restaurant, well, even restaurants are finding it tough, but still.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
But more budget perhaps than the independent store.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. And there have been higher-end ones that have got back in contact. A little game I play with myself at the moment is, if I think their branding is being done professionally, and I've got an idea about what average branding costs, then I'm thinking, "Well, they obviously think marketing is, have money to put into marketing." And this is a completely different type of marketing, but it's still about connecting, connection, and getting people to feel the way that you want them to, or encouraging people to in a different way.
Steve Folland:
I love this idea. How's it gone? [laughing]
Becky Prinn:
How's it gone? Yeah.
Steve Folland:
Yeah.
Becky Prinn:
So, I started with the Christmas card idea because I thought I need something that gives people a deadline and things. But actually, a lot of people have said they want them more as brand cards. So, there's a restaurant down the road. It is five minutes down the road, so I actually went to see them. They were lovely. As soon as they received the card, they sent me a lovely email. And they want me to do Christmas cards for them. They also want me to do a brand... I haven't quite decided what I'm calling it yet, but lots of little illustrations that they can use on thank you cards and anniversary cards, anything really. And sometimes they just want them, or gift cards as well, they're sending out for birthdays and things, because they don't have anything, or they do have something that looks quite corporate, but they want something that has more personality.
Becky Prinn:
So they want me to do a brand card. They want me to also do a Christmas card, which is going to look like their brand card, but a little bit more Christmassy, some trees, maybe some foil and things. They want me to do this kind of asset pack. And I have actually done this before for a restaurant, but this time I was a lot more confident about how it could look, and I knew my prices straight away. And it was really nice to be able to go in there, and they were just like, "Oh, yeah. Well, that all sounds great." I was like, "Oh, okay."
Becky Prinn:
Another thing I've realised this last year is your skill as an illustrator or an artist or whatever you do, that's one thing, but how you are as a person to work with and your process, and are you listening to what they say? All of these things are a massive chunk as well, which I don't think I really gave enough thought to before. I thought if your product is 100%, then everything else will just fall in your lap.
Steve Folland:
Yes. So one example is that they've come back to you and said, "Yeah, we love this idea, but actually we want more than that."
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
And we can see what those possibilities are as well.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. That's it.
Steve Folland:
So out of 100, what would you say has been the hit rate? Doesn't feel quite-
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. So I've got that one. I've got another restaurant that I'm doing the Christmas card for. And then I've had other jobs that have come through, like I'll mention in a minute, a live illustration job. But I'd say the hit rate has been maybe 10%, just under 10% that have come back and said, "Yes, we want to use you." Maybe 5% as, "Yes, we're really interested," but I still need to kind of do the work to keep kind of trying to encourage them or see if there's any other questions that they have. About 5% have said, "No, thank you." And then the rest, I don't know.
Steve Folland:
Ah. So actually, there's still quite a lot of potential that isn't no. [laughing]
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. There is.
Steve Folland:
Who have received it.
Becky Prinn:
Oh, and one I had back because the person that I addressed it to doesn't work there anymore. But then I think I didn't put head of marketing or whatever on there. So if I had put head of marketing on the envelope, someone else might have opened it. So even those things, it's a learning curve.
Steve Folland:
Right, yeah.
Becky Prinn:
And then I will do another chase-up for everybody in September, because I feel like now a lot of people are on holiday, not necessarily thinking about Christmas. I've had a couple of people that are on maternity leave. Not every card is going to get to the people. So there's that. But yeah, I'm going to do another follow-up in September, and hopefully then people who are in that mentality that September to December, it seems a lot closer then. Well, it is a lot closer.
Steve Folland:
There's so much in there, isn't there? Because you could have just sent a thing saying, "Hey, I could illustrate your building or illustrate your company or whatever." But you gave it more tangible thing, like, "Hey, how about a greetings card like the one you're holding right now?"
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
Not saying those were the words you used. And then with that, some kind of deadline. So it's like, actually, if you want that for this Christmas, then I need it by presumably this day, or there's certainly a time horizon there, isn't there?
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
So that encourages people to hire you and to move ahead. But even if they don't, maybe they're going to hold onto it to think of you for something else. We're talking about something that you're actually in the process of doing right now, and who's to say that they won't recommend you to some... Even if they haven't hired you, that they won't recommend you for something else to somebody else and so on and so forth. So there's a big knock-on effect that you might not even see for months or years.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah, definitely. I sent a card to a hotel in York. They just received the card, and they had like, I don't know what the term is, like an umbrella company that kind of looks after the other hotels. And somebody from London's Hilton was part of this, and they came and met up with the people in York. The person in York showed the person in London this card. She loved it. She wrote me an email and said, "I've got a live illustration event in London next week. I can't find an illustrator that I like the style of. Are you interested? There's a decent budget for it." So I was like, "Oh, tell me more." And yeah, and so I got that gig, and yeah, that was completely out of my comfort zone, but I thought, "Well, that's quite exciting, and it pays well, so why not?"
Steve Folland:
Brilliant. What are the sort of different income streams? We've talked a lot about or heard a lot about greetings cards. You've said surface pattern a lot of times, for example. So, do you have a niche? What's the diversification of what you offer.
Becky Prinn:
What I really love doing at the moment is kind of illustration in kind of a sketchy way, so kind of buildings. I really want to get more into kind of food, illustrating food. I love food. I've been in contact with restaurants and things. And I also really enjoy calligraphy and typography, and I've been getting into that a lot more recently. And I found these things that I would love to do a version of, and they're kind of not necessarily invitations, but little cards that combine calligraphy and florals and little sketchy marks, or not even florals, but just marks that really show emotion, show that it's not AI-produced, that just give people a smile, a burst of colour, something that just feels really handmade, but also has been done by a professional. It's tricky, and I sometimes find it tricky, getting the balance right between something looking childlike and something looking childlike but still done by a professional hand. So, that's kind of what my niche I'd like to be, and I need to put more kind of food illustrations and more of these things that I'm talking about into my portfolio and online so people can see that that's what I really want to do. And just really play with that idea and someone wants some olives and just drawing olives in a really naive way or with really unusual colours or with the brush marks really thick and playing with type, just making it look different and alive and not polished and shiny. There's a place for that, but that's not where I want to be.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. As an aside thought, let's say you're illustrating for that restaurant. Will you be filming up close, you doing that for them to show on their socials and they put it on there?
Becky Prinn:
That would probably be a good thing to do. That probably would be a good thing to do. Maybe. The problem I get, because too many things going on, it's quite overwhelming, and filming and editing and things are not something that I am particularly comfortable with or confident in. And I guess that's kind of a thing that in the future would be lovely, if I could outsource that and get somebody to kind of help me with that. But I think that would be great for restaurants and things, wouldn't it? I'd not thought about that angle before.
Steve Folland:
It was when you mentioned AI, and it's like, "Look how human this is," because you can actually see our Christmas card being designed or here's Becky painting those olives that is now on that card that comes with your bill or whatever.
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
And so we actually see the food, and then we see you painting it, and it doesn't need to be complicated, but-
Becky Prinn:
No
Steve Folland:
... that's the sort of thing that can go on their socials or their website.
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
But it also reflects well on you, doesn't it?
Becky Prinn:
Yeah, definitely, and I think that's so much what people are wanting now, that kind of the story, authenticity, and yeah, that brands are interested in actually working with proper artists and investing in that and that it's important to them.
Steve Folland:
Was there any other type of outreach that you've done that we haven't touched upon? Because I know you mentioned, for example, the agencies going to trade shows and things like that.
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
I mean, maybe that's not even possible with childcare and stuff at the moment, but yeah. Is there other ways that you've been reaching clients?
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. So, I think maybe because I was saying before that I don't do a great deal on LinkedIn. I don't, but I will try and comment on people that I think are interesting and just more like an update of what I've been doing. And so I've had a few people contact me on LinkedIn that have kind of smaller studios, art studios, and they're doing the trade shows. So, I'm getting my work in front of people again in a similar way and getting the work through them, and they've been fab to work with. So, I'm doing it through them, and I think it's probably quite good that I am aware that I don't have an infinite amount of time, that at the moment, I can't do that. And the investment in time and energy, I think, doing those things is huge. And at the moment, I think that would just be too much. So, it's good that somebody else is doing it for me. I don't have a problem paying commission. I know some artists think that they should get more, but I think there's a lot of work that goes on behind the scenes and negotiations and things. So yeah, that's working well for me as well.
Steve Folland:
So, people that you've connected with on LinkedIn who are other illustrators who are going to trade shows or... effectively like agents?
Becky Prinn:
A bit of both. I think there's quite a few people now kind of my age, kind of early 40s, that were illustrators, kind of got to kind of head of design or whatever, and maybe kind of branching out and forming their own companies now, and then wanting to bring in different looks from other artists, so then selecting a few artists. So, I guess kind of a little bit like a mini agency, but not like these big art agencies that there were 20 years ago. So yeah, that's quite interesting. And then, because they're illustrators, they get it, and it feels like it's a really collaborative experience, where I think 20 years ago, the design manager, the creative directors, a lot of them wouldn't know what to do. They wouldn't know how to use Photoshop. They wouldn't have illustrated anything. Whereas I feel like now, because 20 years ago, we were starting out, and then these people that I'm working with are similar age, they've grown up doing that. So, we all know how it works, and it just makes the collaborative process a lot more interesting. And I feel a lot more respected as well, because they actually understand how all the things work and the process and everything.
Steve Folland:
It's a slight agency model, but it's almost like you're all pooling resources-
Becky Prinn:
Yeah
Steve Folland:
... to a certain degree as well. It's just that somebody else is going to the trade show with a load of illustrator's work.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. And they've got the contacts because they've worked at some of the top places, and they've kind of got that- ... that reputation then to carry them, and that they know then that buyers will be interested because they've got the good names behind them.
Steve Folland:
And again, these interactions that have brought this about on LinkedIn, it sounds like potentially they could have been seen like competition.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah. It feels like there's a bit of a shift, but I don't know whether it's just the circles that I'm in. It does not feel like it, and I don't know whether it's what I was saying before about it being authentic. And this person that I met in Leeds a year ago, she does wedding stationery. Her style could not be more different to mine. It is delicate watercolor. It's beautiful. But people will either like mine or they like hers. We wouldn't be in competition. And I feel like now, people, if they're wanting artists and illustrators, they're wanting a definite style. They don't want something generic.
Becky Prinn:
So, I don't know whether it's that that's more important, the kind of particular style, or hopefully something might be changing. It just feels being kind and respectful to people is so important. And then if you're like that, then the people you're attracting are like that. I'm hoping, maybe, ideal. But, yeah. I like helping people. People reach out to me on Instagram and it's not like I think, "Oh, well, they could be useful to me in 10 years' time." It's just nice to help people out. And yeah, and I've had generally good experience of people helping me out that have been further on.
Steve Folland:
Love it. Okay. Now, Becky, I always do this thing where I ask for three facts about yourself to make two true and one a lie. Let me figure out the lie. What have you got for me?
Becky Prinn:
So, I still have two baby teeth.
Steve Folland:
[both laughing] Okay. Yeah.
Becky Prinn:
I was once an extra on "Emmerdale."
Steve Folland:
Ooh, okay. "Emmerdale" is like a big soap set in Yorkshire.
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
Okay, yep.
Becky Prinn:
And for one of my jobs, I was asked to deliberately cheat and fail a test.
Steve Folland:
Okay, that's weird. Right, let's start with, you have two of your original baby teeth?
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
In your mouth? Not in a jar?
Becky Prinn:
[chuckling] In my mouth.
Steve Folland:
Is that insanely rare or?
Becky Prinn:
It is not that rare actually, although I haven't met anybody else that has had the same.
Steve Folland:
How does it come up in conversation?
Becky Prinn:
Well, exactly, yes. [both laughing] It doesn't come up very often.
Steve Folland:
It would mainly be dentists, I suppose.
Becky Prinn:
[chuckling] Yeah.
Steve Folland:
So, what? Are they like hidden?
Becky Prinn:
There weren't bigger ones to come through, so no kind of roots to push the other ones down, so they've just stayed. And I was told that I would lose them by the time I was 30, and they're still going strong.
Steve Folland:
Wow. Oh, okay. That kind of feels true. I mean, the tooth fairy could still come for them.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
Think how much you could cash in.
Becky Prinn:
Going rate's quite good, I think, nowadays.
Steve Folland:
Yeah, too right. Right, you were an extra in "Emmerdale." [chuckling] What were you an extra? This is like a farming soap opera.
Becky Prinn:
They were having a scene in Leeds, so they needed some extras. So they went to the student union, and you kind of went and pitched yourself, and then I think we were given quite a small amount of money, but at the time it seemed like a pretty decent amount. And then we went into Leeds on a Saturday afternoon. It was not then a Saturday, but must have been like a weekday because it was really quiet, and they kind of shut all the... Well, they made it look like it was nighttime, and put all the extras in, and have a scene going on there.
Steve Folland:
So, could you see yourself on the telly?
Becky Prinn:
Yeah, I think like a bit of shoulder. I saw my friend was on it, and I could see. But yeah, not my face. But yeah, just quite a shoulder.
Steve Folland:
And you were paid to fail a test?
Becky Prinn:
So, one of my jobs, I was a mystery shopper at uni, and on one of the jobs I had to go in and apply to be a teacher, and my tasks were to, yeah, deliberately fail and to get my phone out while I was in the test.
Steve Folland:
In case you were cheating?
Becky Prinn:
Mm-hmm.
Steve Folland:
Oh, man. I don't know. Two baby teeth, "Emmerdale," fail a test. I've often wondered about being a mystery shopper. [both laughing] Sounds quite fun when you just get paid to go in places. And they do, they give you a task, don't they?
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
So that sounds weird, but that sounds possible. Two baby teeth. I have literally never heard of an adult having baby teeth, but is that because actually it's quite common, therefore it's not like something I've seen on the front of "Take a Break" magazine? Or have you made it up? I feel like maybe because you're in the vicinity of "Emmerdale," maybe they were even filming "Emmerdale" in Leeds one day when you were there, but I think "Emmerdale" is the lie.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
Yes!
Becky Prinn:
[laughing]
Steve Folland:
Which means you have two baby teeth. I'm so glad-
Becky Prinn:
I do
Steve Folland:
... that's true.
Becky Prinn:
[laughing] Yeah, they're smaller.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
Oh, wow.
Becky Prinn:
Something like that.
Steve Folland:
Well, do you know what? I mean, what a draw to the video version of this podcast that will be. [both laughing] People now stopping the car going, "Hang on, I have got to watch this."
Becky Prinn:
Apparently, I googled this before, apparently 25% of people can have their baby teeth still.
Steve Folland:
So maybe this is why we don't hear more about it, because otherwise it would be a Netflix documentary, wouldn't it? The freak with the baby teeth. Whereas actually, it's not that freaky. It's just that most people-
Becky Prinn:
[laughing] People don't want to boast about it.
Steve Folland:
You just don't talk about it, because it's never going to come up. Wow. Okay. Becky, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Becky Prinn:
I think it would be to not look too far ahead. Just do it. Do something, even if it doesn't feel exactly what you want to do. Especially, first of all, just try things. You don't know what's going to come out of it. You don't know who's going to be at something that you're doing, who you're going to meet. But if you don't get yourself out there and get yourself known and start talking, then no one's going to know about you. So I think just do the thing, do anything, and just meet people and talk to people.
Steve Folland:
Feels like there's a new chapter of you and your business, for that matter.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
They're too entwined, because 10 years is a long time. You've already proven yourself, but it feels like there's... I don't know. We've only just met, but it feels like there's wind in your sails off the back of that course and the people that you met along the way last year.
Becky Prinn:
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Steve Folland:
Well, enjoy. I look forward to hearing where that goes. It's been nice watching your cat crawl all over the place. What's your cat's name?
Becky Prinn:
Pepper.
Steve Folland:
Pepper has made a lot of appearances.
Becky Prinn:
[laughing] She has.
Steve Folland:
I don't know whether the bell will make it on or not. [both laughing] If I can get rid of the bell.
Becky Prinn:
Apologies.
Steve Folland:
If not, it's not been like a court jester dancing around in Becky's living room. It's Pepper. Right. Go to beingfreelance.com. There'll be links through so that you can find Becky online. Go find her on LinkedIn and say hi. Check out her work as well on her website and things like that. But for now, Becky... Well, do you know what? I'm so glad. I haven't said this either, but Becky did ask, do I think the greetings card story would be good for the podcast in amongst everything else? And she did it by sending me a greetings card, handwritten, and I was like, "Yes! I love this!"
Becky Prinn:
[laughing] It worked.
Steve Folland:
Yes. Not just because I'm getting a Christmas card in the summer. [both laughing] Yeah. No, I think it's brilliant. Good luck with it.
Becky Prinn:
Thank you very much.
Steve Folland:
I really want to know how it goes.
Becky Prinn:
Thank you.
Steve Folland:
But yeah, for now, thank you so much, Becky, and all the best being freelance.
Becky Prinn:
Thank you for having me. It's been fab. [upbeat music]
Steve Folland:
That's it. We're done. Thank you so much to Becky. And I found the card. This is the card. If you're watching the video, you will see it. If you're listening, it has a picture that she has illustrated/painted of the Leeds Corn Exchange, which is a beautiful building. We went there a few years ago when we did one of our Being Freelance Community creative days out. We went to Leeds, which is much further north in England from where I am. It's like five hours or something on the train. We did a linocut workshop with Sophie Greenwood, funnily enough, who got mentioned in this episode. And now, here's the card that Becky has pitched to be on the podcast with. Beautiful job, Becky. Love what you're doing. Good luck with it as well.
Steve Folland:
Also, there's a bit in this episode where Becky talks about that feeling, the change that happened when she was now being self-employed, but also being a parent, and that kind of rubbing against each other. Sounds great with the flexibility, but it's also quite a tough experience. Totally related to that, because if you don't know, I went full-time freelance in order to look after my kids when they were nine months old, four years old, something like that. So, at that same intersection of going to school, but also nursery, and trying to run a business. So, totally understand. And I tell you what helps is the Doing It For The Kids podcast. If you don't know, it's another podcast that I co-host with Frankie from the Doing It For The Kids community. That's a community full of self-employed parents. And our podcast is only 20 minutes long. It's like a Q&A, like an agony aunt and uncle situation. If you fancy listening to that, if you related to what Becky was talking about, search for Doing It For The Kids wherever you got this episode.
Steve Folland:
Okay. I'll see you on Instagram and LinkedIn, no doubt, because much as Becky doesn't like it, I don't mind hanging out there so much. And of course, in the Being Freelance Community, I'll see you in there. And for another one of these very soon indeed, you have a great week being freelance. [upbeat music]
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