Motion Designer Alex Liou
About this episode…
MOTION DESIGNER & 3D ARTIST ALEX LioU
Alex trained as a musician. Self taught as a motion designer, he’s always been constantly trying to learn and improve.
Finding an internship in LA working on big Hollywood movies, he kept at it. Swapping socialising for learning, upskilling and sharing his self initiated projects on Instagram - he made a name for himself and studios started coming to him.
Now, post-pandemic, he’s trying to rebalance work-life. 4 day weeks are in. Snowboarding weekends are the norm. But it’s a slippery slope when you stop learning - the instability of freelancing is still keeping him on his toes.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
LEAN INTO THE DISCOMFORT
Alex feels like freelancing suits him better than a staff job because it stops him being too ‘comfortable’, it makes him improve...
“Because in a way that unstable nature of freelancing, it keeps me on my toes. It keeps me hungry and thirsty - I want to get better, cuz in a sense, obviously you want to keep getting hired and you need to show them that you're still progressing and that you're not just kind of staying in one place.”
ALWAYS IMPROVING
Alex always seeks to improve his skillset, taking courses, watching tutorials and putting this into practice with is own projects that he shares on Instagram….
“There's so much technology that's happening, that's changing, that's constantly progressing around us that you can't really stagnate. You have to keep seeking out and keep improving yourself to show that, Hey, I'm still here, I'm still willing to learn, I'm still willing to get better.
And I think that does show, and a lot of studios are impressed by that, and those are the artists that they seek out because a lot of these studios, they're run by artists themselves who also love to geek out and just talk technology, talk creative things. And when you can bond with them on that level, there's almost like more of a rapport and they love working with you at that point.”
BE A KIND PERSON
It’s not all about the skills though, it’s also about being a good person to work with…
“I remember hearing a quote a long time ago, that studios - the people that they continuously like working with might not be the best artists, but they're oftentimes the best people.
You can always teach someone a skillset, but it's very hard to teach someone to be a kind person.
And so that's something that's stuck with me - where I try to be as communicative as possible, but I also try to be the best version of myself with these studios. I try to be kind, clear, communicative and honest with them. And I think that that goes a long way.”
HAVE SAVINGS - BE PREPARED
The work might not always be there, but if you’ve saved some of your earnings, that’ll be okay…
“I am making more money than I ever thought I would make, but I am still frugal and I always have savings.
We're talking about this ebb and flow of freelance work, you know, you have to always be prepared for things not to be moving and having savings behind you and having that mindset, I think helps a lot.”
FOUR DAY WEEKS
After years of ‘grinding’ to learn new skills and establish his reputation, often turning down social opportunities to focus on work ones, Alex is now wanting to find a better work-life balance…
“The goal, at least for me, in freelancing is that I want to work less hours, but make more money. I want to find more of this work-life balance.
I started snowboarding last year, so basically that's been my new obsession. And so every studio who's come to me - I'm like, Hey, can I work four day weeks so that I can go up on the weekends with my friends to go snowboarding? And I've gotten lucky enough that most studios, say that they're okay with that”
“Allow yourself time to breathe and relax.
Allow yourself time to have a life...”
Motion Designer & 3D Artist Alex Liou
More from AleX Liou
Alex’s website
Alex on Instagram
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and Motion Designer & 3D Artist Alex Liou
Steve Folland:
As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Alex Liou:
It's, uh, it's quite a journey. So before I got into doing any kind of motion design, I actually primarily did music. My degree is actually in music business. And the only reason why I got that degree was because I didn't know what the hell I was doing with my life. <laugh>. I was like, Hey, I've been, you know, doing music forever. I actually didn't want to go to college. It was my mom who was like, you should, you should try the college thing just to, you know, just to see what happens. <laugh>. And I'm very grateful that she did that. So my degree required an internship for me to graduate. And at the time I was performing with Drum Corps International, which is essentially professional marching band, <laugh>.
At the time I played percussion instruments - the group that I wanted to perform with happened to be in Nashville, Tennessee. And there was also companies that I thought, hey, they could be fun to intern with while I'm out there, so why don't I just make this move and make this happen? And so in my final year of college, I moved out to Nashville to pursue this career and this internship. And while I was out there, I basically lucked into an internship that led into a full-time job with a company called Innovative Percussion, which is a drumstick and mallet manufacturer. I was the first hire in 10 years, and also the youngest person in the front office. And so because of that, they said, Hey, why don't you do all of our media, our advertising, graphic design, and our video production for the company. As you can tell, this is kind of like a more of a mom and pop operation. We wore a lot of hats while at this company. And so at this time, my resume of design was that I had taken one Photoshop class in I think high school or middle school or something like that. So not very experienced by any means, but..
Steve Folland:
...they figure, you are young, you'll know how to do this...
Alex Liou:
Yes, yes. That's, that's exactly it. They're like, you'll pick it up really quickly, you'll be fine. And I was like, sure, why not? I'll try it. I've never done this before. <laugh>, I started doing brochures and advertisements for magazines for them, but then also doing some of the video production work - like, interviewing artists and just kind of like, you know, putting these little stories together. And I had a lot of fun doing that. So while I was kind of working on these projects, I, I just thought, Hey, you know, this is something that I'm actually having a lot of fun doing and I would love to get better at. So I just started kind of seeking out different resources to further my skills and push what I was capable of.
And while I was diving around, I found this called lynda.com, I learned that if you had a public library card, you could get all of their courses for free. So I said, you know, why not? I'll just start taking a bunch of classes in these different fields and can just kind of see what interests me and see where it pushes me. As I was going through these classes, I found this thing known as Motion Graphics, which is what I do now, and it looked really interesting. So I figured, you know, why not just kind of dive down this path? I was with this company for four years - the one I originally joined as an intern - they were great to me.
Because I think they saw that I had this passion in learning about this topic. They allowed me to take a lot of these courses on the company dime and stuff like that, just to, you know, keep furthering myself. And so during these four years, I just kept grinding and grinding because once I kind of found this passion for motion graphics, I got in that mindset of like, oh, I didn't go to school for this, so I suck and I have to make up for the x amount of time that I, to say it like, crudely, like I, I wasted on, you know, doing something else. You know, that is not the, the current focus. As I was with this company and I was doing this for a long time, I kind of realised, like, because I was the only person doing it, I was essentially the best person there, and I didn't want to be in that position.
I wanted to have other artists that I could learn from. I wanted to surround myself with other like-minded individuals. I wanted to find a mentor to really take me over that kind of initial curve. And so once I had that mindset, it kind of came to me at a perfect time where I realised I also wanted to move somewhere that was a bit more diverse. So I grew up in Austin, Texas, and then I moved to Nashville. So I'm basically in the south of the United States, which is not known to be maybe the most diverse area. And so from there, it kind of just led me to, Hey, let's take a look at Los Angeles. I really enjoyed that area when I was visiting, and I know there's a lot of these motion graphic studios that are out there.
And so once I kind of pinpointed Los Angeles, I was like, all right, I'm gonna set this goal of I'm gonna be with this company for a total of five years and once year five is done, I'm gonna make the move. I'm just gonna make it happen. Well, once year four came around, I was like, Nope, <laugh>, I can't stay another year. I have to get out. I just felt kind of stifled in my career and I felt that I was kind of coasting through life because I got comfortable with this full-time job, and I'm like, well, I'm making enough to, you know, just, just survive. And that's enough. But I don't know, I think I was also kind of seeing other people around me that were coasting through life, and I was like, I don't want to be there in 10 years or 20 years, whatever.
I wanna look back on a life that I feel fulfilled and I had a lot of fun doing what I'm doing. So anyway, once year four came around, I was like, all right. I was always hesitant on sending out my work, because I think with this like, artist mindset, we're all very hyper critical on our own work. And I was like, well, I've only been doing this for four years now. What studio in Los Angeles where they work on, you know, big movies and stuff like that - why are they gonna want this chump who's coming outta nowhere <laugh>? But, you know, I kind of got over that mindset and I was just like, you know what? Let me just send out my work.
Let me just get it out there and what's the worst that could happen? They say no. And then I still have that quote unquote one more year with this company that I can just keep refining myself and then maybe that'll get me to the point that gets me a foot in the door. Well... so I got lucky enough that one of the studios that I reached out to came back to me and offered me an internship. And the studio was Cantina Creative.
So at the time, <laugh>, when I was looking for studios, I literally Googled 'motion graphic studios in Los Angeles', <laugh>. I had no idea who I was looking for, what I was looking for. I was just like, I just need to get into a studio so I can move my myself forward.
Well, it turns out, <laugh>, this studio does work on all of these big Hollywood blockbuster movies. They're known for doing a lot of the work in Ironman, uh, Captain America Civil War, and Spider-Man Homecoming, just to name a few <laugh>. The easiest example that I always give is that when you watch the Ironman movies and he puts the visor down, and you're in his point of view and you see all of the graphics within the helmet - that's what they do. <laugh>, that's literally them. So once I looked at the studio's work, I was like, well, yeah, I'd love to work with you guys. You guys do incredible work.
I know I'm gonna learn so much with you guys. I'm gonna take this risk, you know, to basically go from a full-time salary job into an internship job. So I'm taking quite a big pay cut to also move to one of the most expensive cities in the US. You know - really smart decisions, right? <laugh>. But through the studio I end up getting the opportunity to learn from just some absolutely incredible artists. And because of them, I got to work on a lot of films that I just never even thought would happen in, in my life. I got to work on films such as The Avengers Endgame, Bloodshot, the second Avatar movie.
So basically my internship was supposed to be three months long, but then at the end of month two, because I think they realised, you know, I'm a little bit older and I need to make a living to survive here. They then kind of bumped my pay up and just kept me in this freelance-permalance position, so I ended up staying with the studio for like, another year. So that is one of the starts to my freelance career <laugh>. Cuz to backtrack a little, when I moved to LA I still had, I think like a month or two before my internship started.
Well, one of the other studios that I reached out to for an internship called actually hit me up and was like, Hey, do you want to freelance with us for a month? I mean, sure! I'm out here, I need to make money. And it would be great to have even more experience going into this internship that I wasn't kind of expecting to get. But that is it - boiled down. That's how I got into freelancing <laugh>.
Steve Folland:
When you started with the drumming, I wasn't expecting that story arc. James Cameron would be proud. So then when you left after the permalance gig a year or so. Did you then go freelance after that? Or were you looking for other opportunities?
Alex Liou:
So once that that ended, I had a lot of friends who were freelancing and I was like, I kind of wanna try this freelancing thing. I've never done this before. You know, my parents have always held full-time jobs. It's not something like any of us had experienced. But you know, referencing back to when I was talking about when I was in Nashville, I found myself being too comfortable when I sit in a staff job and I was like, I think this freelancing is what I need and what I am seeking out. Because in a way that unstable nature of freelancing, it keeps me on my toes.
It keeps me hungry and thirsty - I want to get better, cuz in a sense, like, you, you want to, obviously you want to keep getting hired, you know, by studios, by clients, whatever, and you need to show them that you're still progressing and that you're not just kind of staying in one place. So once I finished that permalance, I also had a book that I've read time and time again. It's called The Freelance Manifesto from School of Motion. And that was like, kind of at the time my bible into freelancing in the motion graphics industry. And, you know, I took a lot of advice from there that was like, don't be afraid to cold email studios just to get your name out there so they're even aware of who you are.
And I was also lucky enough to have a lot of my friends who were active freelancers, they've been in the industry for a lot longer, and they would, you know, refer me to other studios. And that also got my name out there. During that time, I also kept working on personal projects and taking as many classes as I could, just doing whatever I could to keep bettering myself and furthering my skillset in this industry. I got lucky enough that studios started to grab onto this and kind of see me, and then they just kept hiring me through there. And yeah, so eventually I did bounce back to Cantina for a little bit, uh, for I think like another few months or so, but I just started to then expand my kind of database of studios and I started freelancing around all of LA.
Steve Folland:
So since then, it has it been a fairly regular sort of path, you know, going from studio to studio, putting out the feelers, being referred, being known?
Alex Liou:
I've gotten fortunate enough now to where I don't have to send out as many cold emails because Studios know who I am now. They're the ones who reach out to me. I'm at the point in my career that I'm fortunate enough to be where now I can refer jobs to other people when there's basically too many coming my way.
Um, during the pandemic, it was a weird time, obviously for everybody, but for me, it almost came at this weird, perfect moment of, oh, we can't go anywhere, so I'm gonna just sit my butt down and just focus on taking more classes. And at that point in my career, I had been looking at this programme that I use primarily now known as Houdini.
And I had been gravitating towards this programme because a lot of the artists that I really looked up to, a lot of the studios I really looked up to - this was the programme that they used. But this programme is known to be very technically challenging. It's very daunting. You open it up and it's very different from any 3D package that's out there. It's a lot more technical. But, so basically I took that year and was just like, all right, I'm actually gonna learn this this time. I then started, you know, testing the waters, be like, all right, let me just, you know, I'll take some jobs using this programme and see sort of where it takes me. So basically from there, it's just been kind of on the up and up where now a lot of studios reach out to me to do different types of 3D motion graphics work.
Steve Folland:
Just to put things in perspective - when did you go out to LA? What year?
Alex Liou:
I moved out here the summer of 2018. So I've been here now for a little over four years.
Steve Folland:
But the whole time, even when you've been known, when you've been working on huge things - it sounds like continually developing is a huge part of your success.
Alex Liou:
Yes. I would say so. I think that grinding mentality that I had in Nashville, you know, I think a lot of it does come from the whole imposter syndrome, where we never really feel like we're ready, per se. Where even now, with a job I do have a split second where I second guess myself of like, can I actually do this? Do I have the right skillset to do this? Do I have the mental power capacity to do this? So during that time, I was just constantly working on personal projects, constantly taking as many classes as I could. A lot of times I would even just listen to tutorials, be like, all right, maybe I'll absorb some information by osmosis or something. But yeah, the grinding and just continuously pushing myself is definitely where it like led me to where I'm at in my career now.
Steve Folland:
How would you find or make time for that beyond there being a pandemic?
Alex Liou:
I guess before the pandemic and now after it's a a lot of sacrificing social time or even sleep - where I'm just like, you know, if friends are going out like, Hey, sorry, I've gotta work on this thing, or I've gotta gotta finish this class. Yeah, you, you do have to sacrifice time in order to make room for that, which, you know, I wasn't great about that. The whole like work life balance thing, especially early on in my career, I was not great at. Um, I think with, again, that voice in the back of the head, that's always like, you're not good enough. You need to continuously push yourself. I would basically always grind myself until I was at the point of burnout every year at some point throughout the year. So thaty definitely wasn't the most healthy of balances.
Steve Folland:
And when you are studying and developing, would you set yourself deadlines or projects. Because you can take a course but it's actually putting things into action, having a reason to use a new skill somewhere...
Alex Liou:
Yes. So I think a lot of that again is personal projects. Like I would take what I learned from these courses and be like, okay, how can I spin this into something that is something that's more my style or something that I can utilise in a different project? And so oftentimes if, let's say I do a tutorial and it teaches you a certain skillset, whether it's like I'm doing a fluid simulation or like a smoke simulation or something like that. I've got the basis there. And then from there I kind of take that and it's like, okay, well then how can I further manipulate this to be something that I would actually want to show to the world? And I also got lucky enough to where a lot of these studio jobs that I took on also would weirdly line up with the classes that I was taking or the tutorials I was watching.
And it would just end up being like, oh, I can kind of practise on the fly. But a lot of it is kinda like I'm also setting my own personal project deadlines. Like I've got an app that I use day-to-day called Todoist. Um, I basically wouldn't know how to live my life if I didn't have this. It's my to-do list for the entire day. So I use it for personal stuff, but I also use it for work stuff. Um, and so I would set like, uh, let's say every other day, watch this tutorial, and then at the end of week two, I would then set like another deadline and be like, okay, have this product done by this day and just post it to the world, whether it's on Instagram or my website or whatever. Because oftentimes with these projects, we're just kind of running out of time and nothing is ever completely finished. But, you know, like you were saying, like, I have to get it out there at a certain point, or it's just gonna kind of stay in my archives forever.
Steve Folland:
So how about what you show in your portfolio? Would these projects end up in that?
Alex Liou:
Yeah, so I think primarily I was sharing a lot of these on Instagram, but that's where I put a lot of my self-exploration type stuff. I do have a page on my portfolio website where it's just kind of like all the exploration stuff in there, but I feel like it probably gets more visibility on Instagram. Like my portfolio itself is at this point more dedicated to client projects, just cause a lot of times those are bigger projects and I can show like breakdowns and stuff like that. But all the little like personal exploration stuff, I would just post on Instagram, Twitter, and that would get me a lot of movement there.
Steve Folland:
I remember right at the beginning you said that you did a music business degree.
Alex Liou:
Yes.
Steve Folland:
How have you found the business side of things? Like did that help or should you have become a drummer for that to have helped<laugh>?
Alex Liou:
So a lot of what I've learned on the business side of things is just as the years go on, I just continuously ask my other freelance friends who've been successful in their careers and be like, Hey, how would you go about pricing out this project? How would you go about even wording this email, um, like, so today I just started my first gig for the new year. And this is the first time that I've done something that is a project rate and not a day rate, which is traditionally what... when we're booked by the studios, we're charging day to day, but by doing this project right now, I have more flexibility in my schedule. And it's just basically like, Hey, you've got one month, make sure you get these three scenes done, but you can work whenever you want to. So, sorry, I think I pivoted away from your question a bit there, but...
Steve Folland:
No, but it's cool. So would you say that your pricing is normally dictated to you? Like, do you get to negotiate your fee, for example, with a studio? Or is it simply, well, you're doing this thing, here's what you're gonna get and it's a day rate...?
Alex Liou:
So I would say earlier on - when studios are maybe not so sure about your skillset and stuff like that, it was sometimes a bit more of a push and pull of like, Hey, I am charging X amount, but they're like, Hey, can you go a little bit lower? But as I've kind of built my skillset and looked at the industry as a whole, you do have to be a bit more hardheaded. Sometimes you give them a day rate, and if they're not happy with it, then you just, it's almost like you're shopping for cars where you'd be like, all right, well, sorry, that's just what my rate is now, because again, I live in an expensive place and I have to be able to survive here, so this is what I need to charge...
Steve Folland:
AND you are good at what you do Alex!
Alex Liou:
Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.
Steve Folland:
<laugh>. I'll just sit on your shoulder in those meetings in the future...
Alex Liou:
Perfect, I love it. But yeah, I've been fortunate enough to where I have friends who also have similar skill sets to me, so I can kind of be like, Hey, what are you charging? And most of the freelancers in our industry are very open to discussing things because like, all we have is really each other, like these, like, a lot of these rates are, they're basically arbitrary, right? Like we're, we're just setting an amount. And it definitely is dependent on where you live, what you do, all, all sorts of things. And yeah, so basically as my current career has gone on, I've just continuously increased my rate based on what I think my work is valued, but also like how much rent goes up. That definitely does affect it as well.
Steve Folland:
So now that you're doing someting for a project fee, how are you apporaching that - is it still a day rate mentality?
Alex Liou:
This is the first time that I'm doing it, right. As of today. You know, the goal, at least for me in freelancing is that I want to work less hours, but make more money. So I am still trying to quantify it by looking at the days. The biggest reason why we shifted to this project rate was I wanted to find more of this work-life balance. I started snowboarding last year, so basically that's been my new obsession. And so I've been approaching every studio who's like, come to me - I'm like, Hey, can I work four day weeks so that I can go up on the weekends with my friends to go snowboarding? And I've gotten lucky enough that most studios, say that they're okay with that <laugh>.
So with that said - I was just kind of building out a rough calendar for this project now. I've about a month - maybe a week over a month or so. But I still wanna look at it as like, okay, I'm working these four day work weeks and I would like to stick to the eight hour workday. Like, I do like the ebb and flow of freelancing, but I, as a person am I think very structured. Like with this to-do list thing that I absolutely need to know what tasks I need to finish from day to day. I do need some sort of structure within my schedule - I'm not like maybe some other artist who be like, oh, I'll just work two hours here, chill for three hours, and then I'll come back and work like another three. I'd rather have my head down and be in that flow state for those eight hours. And then after that I'll be free to do whatever I want to.
Steve Folland:
Because you mentioned earlier about work-life balance. You just mentioned snowboarding - so it sounds like it's a work in progress. How's it going?
Alex Liou:
It has gotten a lot better. Since the middle of December, I have gone snowboarding every single week. We're lucky enough, where we're at in Los Angeles, there's a mountain over here called Mammoth Mountain that's about a four, five hour drive away. I have a big group of friends who also snowboard and we basically drive up every weekend. We'll also be making a couple of trips out to say Denver and Utah this year to continue snowboarding. So it's definitely gotten a lot better. But with that, as I was like talking with about like personal projects and classes earlier, how, you know, you're sacrificing a lot of social time to do those things. Well now I'm kind of in the reverse order, right?
Like, I am now sacrificing time that I would be doing classes or personal projects to now relax and to hang out with friends, to just do whatever and go adventure basically - get away from the computer <laugh>. So that's also been a learning process for me of kind of letting go of that voice in the back of your head. We're also in that culture of like, you're looking at Instagram and stuff. You're constantly seeing incredible work out there. So you always have this like, self-doubt of, am I doing enough? But as my career has gone on, you know, I've learned that I love what I do and I want to be a fantastic artist, but I do want to have a life outside of my work. I want to have a life with my friends, my family, because to me, at the end of the day, those are the relationships that really matter and that truly, truly make me happy.
Steve Folland:
Yeah. Did the pandemic play a part in this?
Alex Liou:
In the, like seeking out the, the work-life balance?
Steve Folland:
You went into the pandemic, obviously you couldn't hang out with people and you studied the heck out of it and became, you know, master Houdini. <laugh>. I know you would never say you were a master, I know, but <laugh>, um, did you start working from home at that point when you were working?
Alex Liou:
Yeah, yeah. During the pandemic is when I shifted to just being fully remote, like building my own computer and just working outta here. I think that definitely affected me. I guess till the pandemic, I'd always considered myself very introverted, very shy. But I feel like something happened in the pandemic where I think it was like you said, where you couldn't hang out with people. I don't know if it's all this social energy that built up, but <laugh> after like, when we were able to start going out, I became like the weird social butterfly in a sense. I swear I used to be introverted, but for some reason I'm more extroverted now. <laugh>
Steve Folland:
<laugh>. That's cool. So what would you say you've found challenging in freelance life?
Alex Liou:
Whew. Um, the work-life balance for me has been a work in progress. Last year I didn't work for I think somewhere between eight to nine weeks, but I made more money than I ever had. But it's still scary. Like, even when this year began, even though I had the mindset of like, okay, this year I'm gonna try to take off more time so I can go, you know, snowboarding, do these other activities. But studios were reaching out to me in January, but no one was actually trying to book, I still got scared <laugh>, I was like, is this okay? Like, even though last year, I didn't work for X amount of time and it was totally fine, but I was still afraid of, you know, not having this kind of constant cash flow.
Um, which again, like I'm, I'm used to from full-time jobs or like, you know, looking at my parents as an example. So that's been, you know, tricky to just kind of be like things are gonna be fine. I've done this before and you know, things have worked out and jobs have come through or, you know, I work on myself to keep bettering myself, to pull clients to me. So having that balance has definitely been tricky. And I think the other thing is just also just knowing how to price yourself as freelancers. Like, we can't be walked over by studios who are maybe sometimes just looking for like a cheaper artist or whatever. Like, we have to price ourselves at what we think our work is worth.
Steve Folland:
And one of the things which makes you more valuable is improving your skillset over time with these extra things, right?
Alex Liou:
Yes, absolutely. There's so much technology that's happening, that's changing, that's constantly progressing around us that you can't really stagnate. You have to keep seeking out and keep improving yourself to show studios that, Hey, I'm still here. I'm still willing to learn, I'm still willing to get better. And I think that does show, and a lot of studios are impressed by that, and those are the artists that they seek out because a lot of these studios, they're run by artists themselves who also love to geek out and just talk technology, talk creative things. And when you can bond with them on that level, there's almost like more of a rapport and they love working with you at that point.
Steve Folland:
Yeah, that's an interesting point itself. So before the pandemic, you would normally be going into a studio, right? Like into a location? You get to intereact, but now you're remote. Actually there is a lot to be said for the human relationships when you go into a client's business.
Alex Liou:
Yeah. Obviously it's a lot easier to collaborate with people when you're in the studio. You know, you just swing around, you're like, oh my God, that is such a cool design frame that you made. Like, how did you do that? You have that instantaneous feedback of just asking your mentor, this other artist, whatever, of, you know, how to do a certain thing. And that's a lot harder when you're working remote all the time. And, you know, all you have is basically Zoom calls or Slack or Discord or whatever your communication platform is. And I think because of that, and again, like this, weird new extroversion that I found, I do try to make it a point to especially connect with as many freelancers as I can when I'm working on these projects.
Like, I'll just reach out to them and be, because we're not in this person to person space anymore, you know, I want to like connect with these people on a different level.
Steve Folland:
You've mentioned mentors. Are they like official mentors or...
Alex Liou:
I think in this career or in in this industry, I've never like hardlined, like this person is my mentor or asked them to become my mentor. They've just fallen into that place for me mentally.
Steve Folland:
What do you think you look for in a mentor then?
Alex Liou:
I mean, definitely someone who I think is, you know, better at me than the job that I do. But also someone who is friendly, communicative. Cuz as I was saying, like, you know, a lot, a lot of artists maybe aren't the most personable or the most extroverted or like even willing to discuss things. So like you, you, you do have to kind of, you know, sample around a little bit to kind of find someone who speaks your language and kind of vibes with you the way that you communicate. But I think just being friendly and open is probably at the top. It kinda the same as like the artists that I want to continue working with. I remember hearing a quote a long time ago, that studios - the people that they continuously like working with might not be the best artists, but they're oftentimes the best people.
You can always teach someone a skillset, but it's very hard to teach someone to be a kind person. And so that's something that's stuck with me through and through where I try to be as communicative as possible, but I also try to be the best version of myself with these studios. I try to be kind, clear, communicative and honest with them. And I think that that goes a long way. So I, I think that that's the same of the type of person you wanna work with, the type of person you wanna study under.
Steve Folland:
Finances wise - do you pay yourself a regular amount of money? Like treat it maybe like you were employed? Because obviously you've got those periods where you're not working...
Alex Liou:
Yes, I am making more money than I ever thought I would make, but, and I think a lot of it comes from just how my parents raised me - I still am frugal and I always have savings. We're talking about this ebb and flow of freelance work, you know, you have to always be prepared for things not to be moving and having savings behind you and having that mindset, I think helps a lot.
Steve Folland:
Alex, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Alex Liou:
I would just tell myself, you know, feel free to grind. Obviously you need to keep working hard to get better, to get gigs and stuff like that. But allow yourself time to breathe and relax. Allow yourself time to have a life. You know, being freelance is having that ultimate control over your own schedule and what you do when you do it, all that. So let yourself have that. I think, again, because I was so stuck in this like grind, grind, grind mindset that I would just continuously work and I had a hard time saying no to gigs that would come my way. I would basically say yes to everything just to make sure I was constantly working. But then, in a weird way, like what's the point of being freelance?
Like, I might as well be in a staff position if I just wanted to work all the time. <laugh>. Um, now obviously I'm saying all this in hindsight of like, if I didn't grind, would I be where I am at today? I don't know. It's a hard question to say. You know, it's kinda like when people ask me, do you think I should go to college? And obviously I don't use my college degree, but if I didn't go to college, would I have landed that internship, which would let me find motion graphics to lead me to Los Angeles to lead me to where I'm at today? I don't know. A lot of it also does depend on that person, their mindset and their internal drive.
Steve Folland:
What a brilliant place to end. Alex, thank you so much. All the best being freelance.
Alex Liou:
Amazing. Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you for having me.