PPC Consultant Ryan Scollon
About this episode…
PPC CONSULTANT RYAN SCOLLON
While working in his first job at a small agency, Ryan started a website. He didn’t think much of it. Until its local SEO started bringing him leads and the chance to do extra work on the side.
A year on, working evenings and weekends, he’d reached capacity. This was it. Time to go full time freelance. With no network of his own, he needed his site to continue to bring him clients. And it really did.
In the past year Ryan’s grown a team of two fellow freelancers. Able to make the most of the leads, the retainers and enjoy having people to bounce ideas off of rather than make every decision on him.
Read the highlights in the next tab.
KNOWING WHEN TO GO FREELANCE
Ryan started his freelance website as ‘placeholder’, not intentionally seeking work. But local SEO was doing the trick, sending him a few leads a month. A year later, he knew he had a choice to make…
“I basically ran out of capacity. I'd slowly added each project here and there. I was even matching my employed salary so I was earning double the money.
I was working all the hours I could - evenings and weekends and I had one inquiry come through and it was quite a large project. I spoke to them and they were happy to go ahead and it was at that point I realised, I don't have the time to take this on. I need to make a decision now whether I'm gonna reject that project or not ever take on any more work or am I going to leave my job and go freelance? And at that point I knew I had to hand my notice in.”
FIGURING OUT HIS NICHE NATURALLY
For Ryan, his niche of PPC/lead generation came about by figuring out what he was enjoying most in his weeks…
“One day, I had lots of projects floating around and was feeling a bit down and I thought I need to be looking at the projects that I'm working on and figuring out which ones do I enjoy and which ones do I not enjoy working on.
And I very quickly realised it was all the SEO projects I didn't enjoy working on. So it was pretty straightforward from that point I realised okay, I much prefer the PPC projects, this is the way that I need to go. It was quite tricky to let go with the SEO projects. I was still quite early in my freelance career so you never wanna let go of the money but I knew for my happiness and everything else that I needed to let them go and replace them with PPC projects.”
WORKING WITH A TEAM
Ryan had so many leads from his site that as well as passing them to other freelancers, he decided to grow a small team. As ‘RyanScollon&Co’ he positions himself as both a freelance consultant and as a micro agency…
“It's not easy. It takes time to train people up even if they've already got experience in PPC, they've gotta get used to your processes and everything else. But it's nice to have people to bounce ideas off. I think that was one of the biggest things I struggled with when I first went freelance - I had to make all the decisions… Having that team there to consult with or to have a second pair of eyes to look on a project, it's really helpful.”
CELEBRATE THE LITTLE STEPS
Starting out as a freelancer can be nerve wracking, demanding - but it’s full of little wins if you just take the moment to acknowledge them and celebrate them…
“Celebrate those small wins. Especially when you first start off - because they only come round once. That first project that you win, that first website redesign that you do, the first business cards that you design. All those little steps are so exciting and it's such a big thing for your business. Celebrate those little steps at the beginning and enjoy it.”
“ Celebrate those small wins…
Those little steps are so exciting and it’s such a big thing for your business"
PPC Consultant Ryan Scollon
More from RYAN SCOLLON
More from Steve Folland
Transcript of the Being Freelance podcast with Steve Folland and PPC Consultant Ryan Scollon:
Steve Folland:
As ever, how about we get started hearing how you got started being freelance?
Ryan Scollon:
So it all started about 10 years ago. I joined a small marketing agency in Birmingham as an apprentice. I was very fresh faced. I was only 16 and maybe five years after working there, I ended up doing my first little project on the side. So it was for a family friend and it was making a website and doing some SEO bits for a roofer and it ended up being the best and worst thing that I ever did. <laugh> The worst thing because yeah, I guess I was trying to compare it to the projects I used to work on at the agency and trying to get content and pictures and things from a roofer was an absolute nightmare. But it gave me an insight into working on my own projects and making some money for myself. As much as I only got paid peanuts for the job, it was still a lot of money to me.
Back then I was probably only about 20 or so. So yeah, it was a great insight and that's where it all started really. And then I built myself a website with the idea of it being sort of future proofing. Didn't really know what I was gonna do with it. I didn't know if I would need it in the future as a freelancer or if I could even use it as an investment. So there was one freelancer at the time that I knew of that had sold his own website. He managed to get it ranking for quite a few competitive search terms on Google and he sold it for quite a large sum of money. So my thinking was, well, okay wait, if I don't use it for freelancing then I could always sell it and that would be a great thing. But I knew it would take a while. So the idea was to just have it in the background ticking over. And within 12 months I started generating inquiries and it was a bit of a shock. Didn't really expect to be generating inquiries for it. And that's where it all started really. And then I think maybe 18 months after that first inquiry I found myself handing my notice in at the agency and going freelance full time.
Steve Folland:
Cool. So what was the name of that website?
Ryan Scollon:
It's the same one I've got now. So it's just RyanScollon.co.uk.
Steve Folland:
Because when you were saying maybe I could sell it on, I thought it was gonna be, I don't know, awesome seo.com or...
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, well that was one of the things I had in mind. It was cuz the guy that had sold his website, his one was actually his name as well and I thought, how can you sell that? Yeah, I was like how can you sell it even though it's got your own name attached to it? But I think someone else just sort of claimed it and redirected it. So you can't actually find that site anymore, it just goes to someone else's name.
Steve Folland:
So it was RyanScollon.co.uk but what did you start doing on there? Cause you sounded surprised when you started getting inquiries.
Ryan Scollon:
So originally it started off as like an SEO and PPC blog, just writing blog posts and then I very quickly realised that that wasn't gonna turn into anything. I'm not super keen on writing blog posts and things like that so it was hard to maintain. And then I ended up changing it to actually be a freelancer website. So I was promoting my services but it was never the intention that someone would come across it. It was almost like placeholder text. I think I was ranking at the time for Birmingham, which is where I'm originally from. And I didn't think anyone would be searching for a local freelancer, especially when it comes to online services, web design and things like that. People don't really seem to search for local freelancers cause there's freelancers all over the UK and all over the world. And then it just started to get the odd inquiry. Now I'm talking like one every two months, but as someone who had a full-time job, that was more than enough for the sort of work that I was doing on the side.
Steve Folland:
You started getting more work on the side of your full-time job for about 18 months.
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah.
Steve Folland:
And that was all coming from your website?
Ryan Scollon:
So that's the one thing that's a little bit different from me compared to a lot of freelancers that I've spoken to. A lot of other people seem to get their work through referrals and through their network. But because I was only young, I wasn't really doing networking at the time and a lot of the people that I knew at the agency were sort of part of my boss' networks. It was quite a small marketing company that I worked for. I was their first proper employee really. So a lot of the customers and clients that we had, they were like his ex colleagues or school friends or people that he'd met during his lifetime. So when I left I didn't really have my own network as such. So any work that I generate came through the website.
Steve Folland:
So how did you know when you were ready to hand your notice in and take it full-time freelance?
Ryan Scollon:
I basically ran out of capacity. I'd slowly added each project here and there and because my clients are on monthly retainers they can very quickly scale up and I think at the time I was even matching my employed salary so I was earning double the money. I was working all the hours I could - evenings and weekends and I had one inquiry come through and it was quite a large project. I spoke to them and they were happy to go ahead and it was at that point I realised, I don't have the time to take this on. I need to make a decision now whether I'm gonna reject that project or not ever take on any more work or am I going to leave my job and go freelance. And at that point I knew I sort of had to hand my notice in.
Steve Folland:
How did that feel? Were you kind of confident?
Ryan Scollon:
Yes and no. I think the fact that I already had a client base was really good because I knew that I was almost replacing my full-time salary anyway. I had savings as well that I purposely kept aside so that I had three to six months worth of bills money in the bank should I need it. And I always had it in the back of my head that if I needed to I'd go get a job at Tesco or Macdonald's or wherever I needed to just get the bills paid just to give myself six or 12 months to give freelancing a shot.
Steve Folland:
So I introduced you as a freelance PPC consultant. Is that what you were putting yourself out there originally as?
Ryan Scollon:
No, so because when I worked at the marketing agency we used to do lots of different things, website design content and things like that. But the two main things that I worked on in the six years I was working there was SEO and PPC and I didn't really know anything else. It was the only agency I'd worked at. I didn't have any other experience so I basically took a carbon copy of what I was doing there and offered that as a freelancer but then very quickly realised that I preferred Pay Per Click. SEO's a lot more tricky when you don't have a team around you to write content and help with the website and bits and bobs like that. So that's when I went down the route of going after PPC instead.
Steve Folland:
And did you notice a difference when you decided to focus on that sort of one specialised skill?
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, it was really weird because I think when I first went freelance and you read a lot of advice, people say to niche down focus on one service or focus on one industry and for so long I'd be sitting there trying to figure out what is it that I wanna focus down on. But this almost came quite naturally. It was sort of one day had lots of projects of floating around and was feeling a bit down and I sort thought I need to be looking at the projects that I'm working on and figuring out which ones do I enjoy and which ones do I not enjoy working on. And I very quickly realised it was all the SEO projects I didn't enjoy working on. So it was pretty straightforward from that point I realised okay, I much prefer the PPC projects, this is the way that I need to go. It was quite tricky to let go with the SEO projects. I was still quite early in my freelance career so you never wanna let go of the money but I knew for my happiness and everything else that I needed to let them go and replace them with PPC projects.
Steve Folland:
So the work continued to come through your website...
Ryan Scollon:
And it has done ever since really. I think at its best, probably during covid I was generating anywhere between 20 and 30 leads a month, which is just far too many as a freelancer. I've been fortunate enough that I can pass those on to onto other freelancers and take any projects that I think are a good fit for me.
Steve Folland:
How do you filter through that many?
Ryan Scollon:
When they first get in touch, I send them just a few questions and that will usually give me everything I need to determine the quality. So it things like have they ever run PPC campaigns before? What's their monthly click budget looking like? What industry they're in - certain industries aren't a great fit for PPC. I also specialise in lead generations so I don't work with e-commerce companies so straight away if it's an e-commerce company then I can happily refer that onto another freelancer.
Steve Folland:
So your website or your company name rather is Ryan Scollon & Co, right?
Ryan Scollon:
Yes. Very creative.
Steve Folland:
<laugh>, No <laugh>. My company is Foll&Co Ltd - but the reason I went with that was because I realised that whilst it's mainly about me, I often hire other people to work with me to create a bigger thing than I could buy myself. And it looks like you do as well. You mentioned having a small team of experts who even have their faces on your website. Tell me how that came about.
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, so I think there was a point where I'd reached full capacity myself and I had a family friend who was really interested in dabbling in pay per click and again it seemed like common sense really. I had plenty of leads floating around that I could give them a bit of work to test the water on and they were keen to have a go at pay per click, cause at the time they were in a completely unrelated field. So I ended up taking them on just one project at a time, seeing how they got on with it and now there's two people that work for me. It was quite a tricky process to be honest I think because I didn't want to be falling under the category of an agency, I wanted to stay under that sort of freelance umbrella. So it was quite tricky to maintain that while also having two people on the team. So the way I try and position it is that it's a micro agency but built up of three freelancers so it's not like they get palmed off to a junior. If a client comes to work with me, they'll be ssigned to either one of us and then we are their point of contact and we do all the work. So it's not like there's an account manager or anything
Steve Folland:
How long have you been doing that?
Ryan Scollon:
That would be about 12 months now.
Steve Folland:
How have you found it?
Ryan Scollon:
There's good and bad. It's not easy. It takes time to train people up even if they've already got experience in ppc, they've gotta get used to your processes and everything else. So I know some people who have employed someone to take on a bit of work and free up some time. But actually in the first probably three to even 12 months, it actually takes up more time with all the training that you gotta do and everything else. But it's nice to have people to bounce ideas off. I think that was one of the biggest things I struggled with when I first went freelance is I had to make all the decisions. In my previous job I could shout out great suggestions but I didn't have to be the person to make that decision as to whether we'd go for that strategy or we'd go down that route. So going freelance was quite tricky. I never knew if it was the right decision to do X, Y or Z. So having that team there to consult with or to have a second pair of eyes to look on a project it it's really helpful.
Steve Folland:
And do you work entirely remotely or do you get to meet up?
Ryan Scollon:
It's quite remote. We probably see each other once every month or two - have a work related meeting. We'll spend the morning together, go for lunch as well. So it's a really nice dynamic. Basically there's no real need to work side by side. For the first few months we were doing Zoom calls and things like that to try and help each other, get them on board, help them with projects and strategy. But now they've picked it up, they can sort of run with it.
Steve Folland:
And then you deal with the finance side of it, the contracts, the business side of it?
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah - that's the sort of bit that I like really. I like winning new clients, I like doing the sales and then I organise all the contracts and everything else and then then hand it over for them to do the direct work.
Steve Folland:
Cool. And yeah, I love the way on your website you do manage to tread that line between I am Ryan and this is my thing, but we are also this thing and you'll be working with us. I dunno whether you've experimented with all the copy and the "We" and the "I" but it kind of feels like you've got that balance right.
Ryan Scollon:
With the website, I actually had to hire a copywriter to help with that side of things because it was so tricky to navigate that I found myself, that when I was writing it it was all I and me and then when you sit back and would read it you think oh actually we are a team, there's more than just me. So I'd often have to go back and that's where the copywriter was able to help with the position as well in terms of the micro agency and that group of freelancers and that we don't fall under that sort of agency umbrella.
Steve Folland:
And I see on your site as well that you've got 'as featured in' and it's quite an impressive list of media outlets. Is that something you've gone after as well?
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, so again I'm quite fortunate in that quite a few years of my experience at the marketing agency was sort of doing SEO so I've been able to use that to my own benefit to help the website rank and to get featured in some of these large publications. Some of them have cropped up by luck really. There's a few different tools I use.
I'm not sure if you've heard of it, it's called HARO - Help A Reporter Out. So there's basically three emails a day they get sent out and they ask for expert input on all sorts of things. They'll be sort usually about 80 or 90 different questions on there. It could be about anything. It could be about lifestyle, it could be about freelancing, could be about business, could be about all sorts. And you basically pitch in with your answer and if they think that you are qualified enough and that if your answer's good enough then you'll get featured in said website. Sometimes it's anonymous and you don't know. Usually the bigger websites like the Independent and Forbes are anonymous usually because they'd get absolutely spanned with answers and then some of the smaller publications will publish their name on there so you know exactly what website you may be featured on.
Steve Folland:
So you just type in an answer.?
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, it's as simple as that. So it could be as simple as what tips do you have for someone starting out freelance? You'll send in your answer and a little bit about you and I assume they get a bunch of answers through and they have to pick and choose which one they wanna present.
Steve Folland:
Interesting. I've not heard of that one before. Now, how about how you work, where you work, <laugh>, are you at home, do you have an office?
Ryan Scollon:
So I'm quite fortunate that I have a spare room in my house. So I've got my own home office and it's quite weird going freelance cuz you think you have, well you do have, that flexibility to work as and when you want and wherever you want. But I work best with a structured day. So I'm usually up at the crack of dawn, straight to my computer, usually working by about half six. But that enables me to finish early. When I first started freelancing I'd be sat at my desk at nine o'clock and I'd still be there at 5PM sort of tapping my fingers on the desk thinking almost that I had to still be sat there I think almost just in as part of that routine from when I used to work at the agency but very quickly realised I didn't need to do that and the quicker I stopped messing around on YouTube and of Twitter, the quicker I can get away from a desk and get outside or go walk the dog or do whatever I need to do.
Steve Folland:
So if you are starting a half six, when might you finish?
Ryan Scollon:
Oh, it varies most days probably about two o'clock.
Steve Folland:
Nice. You should be doing breakfast radio, <laugh>. So that kind of sounds like if I ask you about work life balance - maybe you've got that figured out in a way if it works for you?
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, I think so. It was quite tricky when I first started going freelance full time because you're so desperate for work that you feel like you should work evenings and weekends. But I'd been doing that for at least 12, 18 months that when I went freelance full time, that was the absolute opposite. I was like, I do not want to work anymore evenings or weekends. I'd been doing it for so long that I almost felt burnt out, which was the opposite of how you should feel when you first go freelance. You should be excited, you should be driven. But I was the absolute opposite. I was almost finished <laugh> so I was quite strict to myself when I first went freelance full time and tried to avoid evenings and weekends unless it was work that I wanted to do. I never do client work on evenings and weekends. It's always my own stuff. But yeah, I try and keep it quite structured, quite strict. I've sort of recently been experimenting with a four day work week as well. Again it's hit and miss, I'm happy to work five days on the weeks that I need to when there's a bit more work involved. But yeah, just trying to find that sort sweet spot in terms of work life balance.
Steve Folland:
And are you someone who has goals that you work towards or do you just see how things go?
Ryan Scollon:
At first it was all about seeing how things go and then it was financial goals and then I think very quickly you realise that money isn't everything and that it's about the work life balance and the projects that you work on and enjoying those. So at the minute for me it's more about working on fewer projects but bigger clients, bigger retainers and just working on projects that we enjoy with companies that we enjoy and with clients that are invested - clients that want to help themselves.
Steve Folland:
Working in that retainer way. How do you deal with price increases. You could easily take somebody on and then it's been going so well a year later you are maybe getting more money out of new clients and not that one. How have you dealt with that?
Ryan Scollon:
That's still one thing that I haven't done since going freelance is actually ever increased my pricing for existing clients. I still have two clients at the minute that pay me absolute peanuts because they were the first two ever clients that I ever worked with and they're still with me now four years later. It's something I've been thinking about - a lot of other freelancers have been increasing their pricing recently due to inflation and things like that. And it is something that I've been preparing. I think with everyone, the fear is that clients might leave leave but then you have to realise that when you increase your pricing you actually need fewer clients. So it's that sort of give and take.
Steve Folland:
So that's a work in progress.
Ryan Scollon:
Yes.
Steve Folland:
It's a funny thing with those original clients though, isn't it? Because there is almost this affection to the fact that they were there supporting you when you needed it most at the beginning.
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, absolutely. And to be honest, they're very easy clients. They never bother me. They pay their invoices on time. I rarely hear from them - probably once a year.
Steve Folland:
Okay. Well good luck getting over that dilemma. In the sort of thing that you do with PPC, I imagine proof is important? Yeah. How do you go about collecting proof and testimonials? Those are probably two separate things, but I'm imagining PPC is something that you can actually gauge quite nicely compared to other freelance things that we might do.
Ryan Scollon:
Yeah, there's pros and cons. It's very good because you can link it directly to sales. If someone clicks their ad goes through to the website, fills out a form, the sales team then speak to them and let's say they become a new customer for the client, you can then attribute the work that you've done to a direct sale and to the value of that sale. The problem is, when it comes to case studies and things like that, because everyone wants to keep that information confidential, they don't want people, their competitors or other people in the industry finding out how they're landing those inquiries or how they're landing those sales. So sometimes they're okay with it, especially if you keep the details vague or sometimes they prefer to remain anonymous and you have to put up anonymous case studies.
Steve Folland:
And so actually that does tie into testimonials. Do you struggle to get people to say nice things cuz they almost don't want to admit working with you?
Ryan Scollon:
Testimonials are okay. Simply because they're more than happy to say nice things about you. It's more about the individual tactics that you've used. So they wouldn't be so keen on the idea of me writing up a whole post about how we took their campaign and changed it and improved it and what steps we took. Because while it's nothing truly special, there's no secret formula, they'd obviously much prefer if competitors weren't aware of the tactics.
Steve Folland:
Ryan, if you could tell your younger self one thing about being freelance, what would that be?
Ryan Scollon:
I think it would be to just enjoy it. I think I panicked and stressed so much at the start when I first went freelance full time and just to celebrate those small wins. Eespecially when you first start off - because they only come round once. That first project that you win, that first website redesign that you do, the first business cards that you design. All those little steps are so exciting and it's such a big thing for your business that when you get a few years in, you look back, you just don't get the same excitement anymore. So yeah, just celebrate those little steps at the beginning and enjoy it.
Steve Folland:
Thank you so much and all the best being freelance!
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